Pine and Cedar shavings are dangerous

[Going Quackers]

Update!! I decided to call the number on the package to talk to the actual manufacturer. Found out that the packages WERE kiln-dried BUT when I explained the packaging to them, they said I had purchased their "mix" that contained cedar! The packages did not state kiln-dried or list the contents but when I visited their website, everything is listed as kiln-dried. The person I talked to on the phone also confirmed that. I had just ended up with the wrong "pine shavings". When I had asked for pine shavings at the feed store, they gave me the ones that were on sale but I thought they were "pure" pine shavings.
So... I took them back. They happily exchanged them for me and I got actual pine shavings. These are waaayyy better! The cedar mix was seriously giving me a headache and there was no way I was going to put that into the coop. Funny thing is, some of the ladies that work at the feed store say they've used that mix for years and have never had any issues with it. But personally, I couldn't have stood to go into the coops if I had put that in there. It was making ME sick, so I was concerned about what it would do to my girls.
Anyway, just thought I would share... read the package carefully (although that didn't help me this time since the package was not labeled very well) and double-check with the seller to make sure you are not getting a "mix".

That's good! i use the same shavings i do for my horses that said, my new chicks coming gonna try sand as i don't want shavings in my house lol I have raised all my ducks and current chickens with the pine shavings, i do start to mix wood pellet bedding later on because the ducks are wet, but otherwise.. i have not had any issues? I do think good venting is important though no matter the bedding choice.

 

[DixieChicken78]

Makes you wonder how our grandparents and great grandparents ever got anything to thrive. Lol. I have come to see that chickens are pretty hearty.

 

[Westdion]

wow, that's crazy. I'm going to have to look into that! Thanks for the info.

 

[shmccarthy]

Using a mixture of pine shavings and straw for my chickens, they haven't had a problem with it. In fact, I've had more a problem than they have! My asthma really acts up this time of year and straw and dust is what I'm allergic to. I had pine shavings in all 3 of my brooders this year in my basement, and didn't lose a single chick to it. I lost one to sudden chick death syndrome, which was sad, but I knew something like that would happen eventually.
My basement ended up flooding when I was at work one day and I came home and luckily my moms boyfriend and his son had already moved the 3 brooders to the non flooded part of the basement. That didn't phase the chicks what so ever. I use the same bedding for my chicks as I do for my hedgehog, and neither have had problems with it.

 

[Dodger Dean]

Oh, gee, golly... 'Research' ... Have you any citations?
'Reputable and Educated sources', any names?

 

[Suzierd]

I got some pine shavings that had mites in them, won't buy it again.

 

[apteryx]

Anybody ever use rice hulls?

I've heard of one person on BYC that uses rice hulls. Ozexpat uses them in his coop.

 

[Jillian]

I have had my hens on cedar shavings for almost a year now with no problems. They haven't even had one sickness and they lay very well. Are you sure that the whole fumes thing isn't just a scam by the companies that distribute pine shavings? 

I realize I'm resurrecting an older thread here, but this whole cedar vs pine thing really gets to me, and the quoted question is just perfect. If cedar is harmful, it is impossible to believe that pine is safer than cedar. I'll reference a post I made previously here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...s-build-a-coop-need-your-help/20#post_5919671

First, and most importantly, BOTH pine and cedar shavings contain acids that can irritate the respiratory system. If you are going by the actual research used in the stand against shavings, PINE is actually more harmful than cedar.

All the research papers quoted regarding humans and respiratory diseases from pine/cedar have been occupational exposure to the fine dust produced by timberworkers and sawmill workers.

In rats, studies have shown that wood shavings are not inert and can cause immune response and changes in liver functioning, and therefore changes in the absorption rates and activity of drugs introduced to the system. Pine being the least inert (meaning affects the systems to the greatest degree).

The studies examined (and used by anti-shavings people) are listed in the post linked above. To single out cedar shavings when the studies show that pine actually has the greater effect on an animal's system...

There is a well-researched and logical article I found recently that even explains what these liver changes in the lab studies actually mean: http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/Pine.html

So the conclusions I came to in my own research are (1) Do what you believe is right in your experience/understanding and (2) If you believe cedar is 'toxic' then you cannot in good conscience say that pine is okay.

 

[4 the Birds]

Pine is Fine
Hay will lead to Dismay



By the way..... Good ventilation is a must regardless of what bedding you use!

 

[marktoo]

There's enough conflicting information out there to make your head spin. You do some research, get some ideas, weigh out the pros & cons. You choose a method & go with it, if it works out for you, you'll probably use it again, if not.....Pretty hard to argue about the value of pine shavings though seeing that so many have used them for so many years.

Started my chicks out on paper towels over puppy pads for the first week as was recommended on another site. The theory being...the chicks may eat the pine shavings till they figured out what food was, other bedding were too slick & may cause spraddle leg. Sounded reasonable to me! Was it necessary? Probably not, but it worked. Switched to pine shavings after 7 days. A 250w red heat lamp bulb was also recommended somewhere. That, was as it turns out overkill, I could have easily gotten away with a 100w & saved a few bucks. I started the lamp at 26" & went up from there, it heated the whole room.