Pine and Cedar shavings are dangerous

[woofwoofchick]

I've been doing some research on using pine or cedar shavings and from what I've learned, both are very harmful to pets. They are toxic... and can cause respiratory problems for all types of animals. It's sold in bales at all pet stores and farm stores and when I asked why they sell it if it's so harmful the answer was the same reason the sell cigarrettes and other crap that isn't good. Its cheap and it sells. I've been told by reputable and educated sources that using Aspen bedding is best in place of hay if you don't want to use hay. Toxins from pine can even be absorbed into the animals body through thier skin touching it.
Just wanted to put this info out there if anyone is interested in investigating this on their own. I for one am not taking any chances and will be using only hay and Aspen shavings.

 

[Christie Rhae]

I have heard cedar gives off fumes and is not good for chickens for bedding. I have used pine shavings for yearrs with no problems at all.

 

[speckledhen]

Adding that I even use pine shavings for chicks, after they have found the food and water and are all eating and drinking on the paper towels. I then put shavings in the brooder, which are warmer for them to sleep in. Never had one single issue from that.


You always want to avoid any that are like sawdust, too fine. Use good kiln dried shavings of a decent flake size.

 

[speckledhen]

Even a brooder should have ventilation, though, remember. A brooder shouldn't be a closed up, confined space, not enough so that fumes overtake the chicks. Even small chicks need ventilation (not drafts, ventilation up over their heads).

This is one of the main causes of issues with chickens, ventilation. Folks tend to close it off, thinking they're keeping the chickens warmer, when all they are doing is helping moisture from poop and respiration build up and keeping the bedding damp. Even in the dead of winter, chicks and chickens need air flow. With good air flow, even small chicks are okay with dry pine bedding. But it's up to you if you want to spend three times as much for aspen.

It's good to see folks wanting to do right by their birds, Sleepy Owl. I don't take issue with you over that! I've seen too many who did NO research, didn't take a moment's thought to their welfare, and lost all their birds due to complete negligence. I do love to see people doing their homework before they get chicks! You'll continue to learn every year you have them, too, trust me!!

 

[speckledhen]

Pine is fine if it's dry, as in packaged kiln dried shavings. Have used it for over 6 years with no issues. It's aromatic cedar that can cause issues. ANY shavings that are super dusty can be a problem.

 

[PoultryGirly]

I've only heard about the cedar chip shavings. They're the ones that give off toxins.

 

[Madhen80]

I have never heard of pine being toxic, only cedar. But, line shavings can have very fine particals that if inhaled, i'm sure could cause respirator issues. I have used them for years with lots of different critters, though I have at times mister them slightly with water to cut down on the dust. I have no scientific evidence that this is helpful, but its worked for me. And yes, aspen is a great bedding but very costly.

 

[Nslangton]

Cedar is bad, but not pine. I have spent thousands of dollars and countless hours researching bedding options due to owning horses with severe allergy problems. I have also worked closely with my vets and also those at the University of Penn and Spectrum Labs, Inc. to develop the best program for all of our animals with allergy issues. Large Flake kiln dried shavings are the best option. We brooded our chicks on towels and did not switch to shavings until they were a few weeks old. I use pine shavings for all of our animals, including several litters of puppies and have never had a problem. I will lightly mist the stalls and coop with water which helps a great deal with dust. We also clean the stalls and coop every day and remove all bedding weekly and replace with new shavings. Ventilation is key!!!!!.
Ammonia fumes will cause a much greater respiratory problem then the dust from shavings. Any wet bedding that is not removed will lead to molds and other allergens that will also cause respiratory distress. All bedding has pros and cons and I have tried them all, and have had the best success with kiln dried pine large flake bedding.

 

[cgmccary]

This argument has been hashed out before. I have always used pine shavings with great success with both chicks and adult birds & see it as a bio-friendly way of keeping the external parasites in check. Pine shavings is the primary bedding in my brooder pens (with a layer of sand and DE and then lime under that). What is important is to keep your brooders or brooder pens clean and dry. In my large coops, I use a lot of pine straw/needles which I have in abundance.

I cannot say the same thing about hay though. I love the smell of fresh, new hay; however, on occasion when I have used excess hay or straw in the coop, I seem to invite the mites. I have also used cedar shavings with adult birds for their nest boxes for years & I put in the bottom of boxes when I take birds to show (so adult bird is closed up in a box with cedar shavings-- had no problem there either). The cedar shavings you buy at the store in the bags too is kiln dried but I would not use with young chicks. Cedar wood is wonderful for building coops, barns, etc. Both pine and cedar are good insect retardants (including mites, lice, ticks, chiggers and fleas). I use a cedar oil spray on my cows instead of insecticides. I spray the cedar oil spray on my cow daily in Spring, Summer & Fall to discourage flies. Also, I use a solar fly trap and those fly-larvae eatings wasps (put out once a month).

With any kind of bedding, the key is to clean it out and put in fresh bedding -- this would go for whether its dirt, pine, cedar or hay. All of it gets soiled & smells which is what is harmful. I intend to continue to use pine shavings.

Lastly, as Speckledhen says, chicks need no bedding at first because they will eat it & need to learn what food is, so sprinkle their crunbles on a napkined floor for the first 2-3 days -- unless they are with a mother hen, then I just put them right in the pine shavings as she will show them what to eat and how to drink (I don't put any stones in waterers with hens either because they show them how to drink). Spend your money as you will, butAspen shavings, based upon what is available around here, are outrageously priced.

 

[speckledhen]

Sorry to cause such an uproar! lol I am just passing along info that I've learned from animal professionals. I don't think all the data is out there as to how harmful pine is for animals and people will continue to use it as it's a cheap form of bedding. I for one will never use it as what I've heard about it isn't worth the risk of losing my chicks/hens or making them not feel well.

You will never lose a chicken from using good dry pine shavings. You won't. You just won't. Chickens are not rodents, are not mammals, can't go by advice for those animals. Animal professionals, you say-wonder what animal professional who has actually raised chickens has ever had one verifiably die or even become ill from being on good pine shavings? I'd bet my coop not a single one.

What you don't want is to put a green pine tree through your wood chipper and throw those in the coop. You can't do that with aspen or cedar or anything.

What some of you don't realize is that many here could have written one of those books on raising chickens. Our site owner, Nifty-Chicken, actually has co-authored one. There are some true experts here on BYC, not a bunch of fumblers.


ETA: Check out pages 124-125 of "Raising Chickens for Dummies" for bedding options and what not to use as bedding. The #1 and most commonly used bedding option? Pine shavings, of course.