Pine and Cedar shavings are dangerous

[tbiM20]

I quite agree with you. My only issue is addressed in your key phrase, "potential hazards". There is a great deal of difference between something having the potential to cause harm and something being positively linked in all cases to a substance, which is what the title of this thread says.

Thank you, by the way, for being so courteous in your response to my post. Too many times differences of opinion lead to hostile posts and that never works.

Very true, it's definitely not going to be linked to everything. I think chickens have less issue because they don't spend as much time on it, versus, say, small animal pets that spend their entire lives with their faces inches from the shavings.

Heh, no hostility definitely never works

I enjoy a good discussion whether the other person agrees or not. It's how we learn and grow, right?

 

[SleepyOwl]

I have also read about the pine being harmful, especially with chicks. I am going to avoid them at least until my birds are big enough to be roosting in the coop.

 

[donrae]

I think rikithemonk had a good point also--space is key. Sleepyowl mentioned a confined space like a brooder, and I know brooders have to be smallish due to their nature, but aquariums and those tiny rubbermaid totes are bad, I think they confine not only anything the bedding gives off but all the dust the chicks themselves generate. I see so many folks on here keeping chicks several weeks old in a brooder that may have been appropriate for day olds, but they haven't moved them to a larger area. No wonder they get sick, no matter what they use.

I'm a pine shavings/sawdust/wood chip and hay girl, myself.

 

[speckledhen]

Like a new mother, you'll overthink everything with the first batch. As you learn and grown and get more actual experience, you'll relax your grip somewhat.

Hundreds of chicks have grown up here. Haven't lost one to cocci. No bird has ever had a contagious respiratory illness. I started in the very beginning in the coop with my 4 week old chicks on straw when they left the brooder-and realized in a couple of days that it does not absorb moisture or cut down on smell at all. In fact, it smells pretty nasty in short order. Changed to pine shavings and never had one day of issue in almost 7 years, even with day-old chicks.


"Plans" is a dirty word, you know. Life is what happens when you're making other plans and all chicken plans are subject to change, I always say. Best of luck to you.

 

[Stacykins]

Pine and cedar shavings are harmful for pocket pets such as rats and hamsters, who always have their nose in the shavings due to how their bodies are built. You can have the best ventilated, wire cage, and those substrates will still cause respiratory problems. The issue is exacerbated for people who keep their rodents in big fish tanks, where there is much less ventilation. Aspen is a safe rodent bedding, as is paper based bedding, too. I know some people who use fleece blankets that they launder regularly for their ratties, too.

But chickens, who are built upright and don't have their face in shavings, are good. Plus a coop should also be well ventilated.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Pine shavings are probably the single most common form of poultry brooder bedding there is. I've used them myself for many years with I don't know how many hundreds of chicks straight out of the incubator or shipping box onto the shavings. No paper, no towels, nothing but shavings. Never lost a chick to eating them or from fumes.

This is kiln-dried shavings that were DRY coming out of the bag. Never use wet or damp shavings, particularly those that have begun to discolor any more than one should ever use wet hay. Fresh and dry only.

Brooders have to have airflow. Tight, poorly ventilated brooder boxes are asking for trouble no matter what you use for bedding or even no bedding at all. Brooders need good air flow and they need bedding that is dry and absorbent. If the bedding is wet or caked up then change it because wet bedding is an invitation to coccidiosis and possibly respiratory problems brought on by fungal growth.

Fresh, kiln-dried pine shavings are an excellent brooder bedding.

 

[Madhen80]

Good luck with your new chicks. I too am new to chickens, but didn't even think twice about putting them on pine shavings. As many have mentioned keeping them ventilated, keeping them clean, are all too important. And while it was mentioned about rodents and pine, I have to state that I have previously raised rats, mice, hamsters, and gerbils on pine and had few problems with them. That includes breeding them. The babies all grew up just fine. Now, I did always add extra stuff for the moms to shred up and use for bedding lining, so maybe that helped. The most I ever had with any of them in probably 15 years of raising these critters was a nosebleed from a particular rat. And yes, it was probably due to something respiratory, but it didn't claim her life. And as was already stated also, they plant their noses in the stuff and burrow. Chicks do not. In my short time with the chickens I have had 27 so far, and no problems with any of them! Yay!

 

[Imp]

I have to commend you SleepyOwl for standing up for your beliefs.
Your research is correct. There is a rising tide of evidence that pine, redwood, and walnut, in addition to cedar, may not be safe for animals or humans. Including respiratory disease, liver damage and cancer; often not showing up for years.
Sometimes it's hard for people to accept change. I struggle with it as well. But I can remember when cigarettes were sold as a health product. So I use that as a touchstone.

Imp

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
That kind of thinking can go on ad infinitum. Cars kill people...you can get by driving for all your life but someone else got into a car wreck, so now we mustn't drive cars. Grapes are toxic to dogs....no matter that canines have eaten grapes in the wild and in backyards for thousands of years, a dog or two died and now they are considered toxic to dogs. Planes fall out of the sky..it's been proven! When they do, people die...so we must now avoid flying in planes.

Children can choke just as easily on hot dogs and many have done so....more even than on grapes. We mustn't ever feed a child a hotdog now. Chicks have died from being on shavings of any kind, mustn't use them because a few have died...no matter that many millions have been raised on them with success. Must pay attention to the big "WHAT IF" because there have been instances of it actually happening!

Women have died in childbirth, making the act of giving birth a fatal event....no one should have any more children because women have died doing it.

Did you know that many heart attacks in the elderly happen while they are on the commode? Let's stop older people from pooping because it has been known to trigger a dangerous dysrhythmia in the heart....I simply do not care that people have been pooping since they were created, there have been those who have died from it, so I really don't want to take that risk. Anyone figure out how to get the insurance to pay for a colostomy for grandpa when it isn't needed? Heck...can't do that even, cause people have DIED during surgeries. Grandpa could die if I have them do surgery to place a colostomy so he won't have to strain to get poop out of his rectum and have a heart attack. Oh, what to do????

It's called acceptable risk and every adult has to sort out what is an acceptable risk about all the myriad things they do each day and decide if they are going to make themselves crazy over weighing all the risks so carefully that they never DO anything, really, because doing anything at all leads to risk taking behavior.

 

[DixieChicken78]

Makes you wonder how our grandparents and great grandparents ever got anything to thrive. Lol. I have come to see that chickens are pretty hearty.