Please Help, Confirmed Marek's and Mycoplasma

[KRack]

I’m sorry OP. I had a necropsy report confirm Marek’s a few months back, but there were no blood tests done so I did question the wording of the necropsy results. Although my hen did definitely have Marek’s symptoms, and the necropsy reported a lot of lymphoid cells (or something like that, I can’t remember the wording without looking at it). I’m currently working through mycoplasma in my flock as well. Hugs to you!

 

[Folly's place]

I'm so sorry for your birds!
As you've seen already, birds hide signs of illness until they just can't any more, so at this point, any 'off behavior' would be a big red flag for me, at least, in deciding what's best for that bird.
And a complete necropsy at the state veterinary lab should be believable, it's not about guesswork.
You could keep this as a closed flock, and euthanize sick individuals, or to eliminate the Mycoplasma (gallisepticum or synoviae) euthanize the entire flock, clean, wait three weeks, and start over with chicks raised elsewhere, and vaccinated against Marek's disease. Those birds will contract Marek's at your property, but are much more likely to survive without getting the tumors that kill Marek's infected unvaccinated chickens.
Having a diagnosis gives you the chance to make the best decisions you can moving forward, and again, I'm so sorry.
Mary

 

[bhawk-23]

I'm sorry to hear the sad news.

Neither Marek's nor Mycoplasma are really a death sentence.
Yes, some do end up having to cull the sickest of their birds to release them from their suffering, but many folks learn to manage symptoms as they appear.

If you do have MG in your flock, then look into giving Denagard (Tiamulin) for 3 days each month as a maintenance to help control symptoms. There's a lot of older threads here on BYC discussing Tiamulin, so look them up and study them over.

Lot of people here on BYC with Marek's too. Again, culling very sick individual birds may be needed, but you would have to make that determination.

Do provide fresh food, fresh water, grit, limit treats to no more than 10% of daily intake, etc. Check for lice/mites and get a fecal float to see if periodic deworming is needed, if not then I would deworm twice a year. Check to make sure crops are emptying.
Any symptoms you see, start offering extra supportive care to give them a boost.

Keep a closed flock or if you do add new birds, then know that they will be exposed. Your flock is carriers. Some would recommend getting vaccinated birds - again, that's up to you, do your research on that as well.

I'm sure it's been heartbreaking to go through all this. I hope in time things begin to get better as you start to manage symptoms.

Thank you! I've given a round of tylosin to help the ones who had symptoms. We've already ordered the denagard with the intention of a monthly treatment starting in July.

We did an entire clear out and cleaning of their coop 2 weeks ago and keep up daily. Fresh water and food and I'm working on the reduction of treats. They are just so dang cute when they run to me I cannot deny them. I have reduced treats to fruits and veggies and a strict reduction scratch and mealworms

We now have a closed flock for the future.

Thanks again.

.

 

[bhawk-23]

I’m sorry OP. I had a necropsy report confirm Marek’s a few months back, but there were no blood tests done so I did question the wording of the necropsy results. Although my hen did definitely have Marek’s symptoms, and the necropsy reported a lot of lymphoid cells (or something like that, I can’t remember the wording without looking at it). I’m currently working through mycoplasma in my flock as well. Hugs to you!

Oh no, I'm so sorry. I feel your heartbreak. Hopefully we can get through this!

I'm so sorry for your birds!
As you've seen already, birds hide signs of illness until they just can't any more, so at this point, any 'off behavior' would be a big red flag for me, at least, in deciding what's best for that bird.
And a complete necropsy at the state veterinary lab should be believable, it's not about guesswork.
You could keep this as a closed flock, and euthanize sick individuals, or to eliminate the Mycoplasma (gallisepticum or synoviae) euthanize the entire flock, clean, wait three weeks, and start over with chicks raised elsewhere, and vaccinated against Marek's disease. Those birds will contract Marek's at your property, but are much more likely to survive without getting the tumors that kill Marek's infected unvaccinated chickens.
Having a diagnosis gives you the chance to make the best decisions you can moving forward, and again, I'm so sorry.
Mary

Your reply is nearly the exact same as the Dr. I was actually really surprised at how much was done for the necropsy and the time he took to go over everything. He also said that if I see any symptoms at all I should euthanize if going off the results. I am bringing in a couple more because I know my flock is not entirely healthy. If I can bring the ones with more concerning symptoms then I can hopefully get a better picture of what the extent of the damage is. He said he would prefer to euthanize and open up right away instead of me euthanizing and then bringing. I know I have sick ones, I'm just struggling with all this. I was hoping for someone to be able to say what exact symptoms or who I should bring. I'm looking for something someone cannot give. I am just struggling and overwhelmed with all of this I think.

 

[azygous]

Yes, there's a blood test for Marek's. But it involves sending the sample to them in the mail and it's doubtful these days if the sample will arrive before the blood has degraded to the point of not being useful. This is the web site with all the info. https://www.vetdna.com/

I have a flock with avian leucosis, a disease similar to Marek's. I've only had two state necropsies over th years to learn from them as well as verifying what was making my chickens sick. Necropsies are valuable so you can know what the symptoms mean when you have a sick chicken.

Getting these diagnoses doesn't mean the end of the world. All chickens carrying these diseases do not get sick. It doesn't mean mass death. With good flock management, you can have healthy chickens that can develop resistance and live long normal lives, even into spectacularly old age as has happened in my own flock.

These necropsies are done by sight. These diseases all have their own presentations in the affected organs. Marek's typically affects the sciatic nerve. That's its signature. Avian leucosis typically causes the liver to enlarge spectacularly and tumors often decorate it. There is almost never any doubt what the trained and experienced lab tech sees. You may not understand everything that is recorded in the report, but it is accurate and you can trust it.

 

[Folly's place]

I think that the Marek's blood test can be useful, in other circumstances. These birds have confirmed disease by complete necropsies, more accurate than that blood test, which would be totally redundant now for this flock.
Paranoid biosecurity is always best concerning poultry, especially chickens!
Mary

 

[azygous]

Let me address your concerns about selecting a couple more chickens for necropsy. Trust yourself to know your chickens. You have enough experience with sick chickens to have a good idea when they've reached the threshold of not being able to recover. You have seen the signs - extreme lethargy, those dark combs indicating cardio/pulmonary pathology, decaying appetites, dull and droopy eyes, weight loss, dull feathers, etc.

It's absolutely best to take the live chickens to the lab. This is what I did for the second necropsy. The "specimen" is as fresh and uncorrupted as it is possible to get. You will then get far more accuracy that way.

 

[bhawk-23]

Let me address your concerns about selecting a couple more chickens for necropsy. Trust yourself to know your chickens. You have enough experience with sick chickens to have a good idea when they've reached the threshold of not being able to recover. You have seen the signs - extreme lethargy, those dark combs indicating cardio/pulmonary pathology, decaying appetites, dull and droopy eyes, weight loss, dull feathers, etc.

It's absolutely best to take the live chickens to the lab. This is what I did for the second necropsy. The "specimen" is as fresh and uncorrupted as it is possible to get. You will then get far more accuracy that way.

Thank you. Yes, I have my suspicions but not the confidence. And after this necropsy report I fear I may always question my judgement. I think it will just take time to process and understand what exactly is happening, who is suffering, what needs to be done right now and how to move forward. Thank you.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

With respect to a certain poster on this thread living in a foreign country, I don't think they can accurately speak to the testing and experiences here in the US, whatever the case in their home country. Accordingly, I would put little reliance on the opinion offered.

In theory, I'm a breeder. A diagnosis of Mareks would mean destroying my whole flock, disinfecting, waiting a year, then starting over. Because I'm a breeder - there is no commercial value in selling Mareks exposed chicks.

I'm an NPIP participant in FL. A diagnosis of MG means the State would destroy my flock.
These are easy decisions for me, because of the "business" I'm in - risks I accepted when I decided to sell birds (potentially).

That said, if you are willing to maintain a closed flock, and have no interest in selling (or donating) birds to friends and neighbors, plenty of people happily maintain flocks which carry Mareks and/or have been exposed to MG, no (significant) difference from any other backyard flock once the disease(s) take the weakest/most susceptible members.

Whether or not to continue under those circumstances, or to sanitize, pause, and start over, is a decision only you can make.

 

[bhawk-23]

With respect to a certain poster on this thread living in a foreign country, I don't think they can accurately speak to the testing and experiences here in the US, whatever the case in their home country. Accordingly, I would put little reliance on the opinion offered.

In theory, I'm a breeder. A diagnosis of Mareks would mean destroying my whole flock, disinfecting, waiting a year, then starting over. Because I'm a breeder - there is no commercial value in selling Mareks exposed chicks.

I'm an NPIP participant in FL. A diagnosis of MG means the State would destroy my flock.
These are easy decisions for me, because of the "business" I'm in - risks I accepted when I decided to sell birds (potentially).

That said, if you are willing to maintain a closed flock, and have no interest in selling (or donating) birds to friends and neighbors, plenty of people happily maintain flocks which carry Mareks and/or have been exposed to MG, no (significant) difference from any other backyard flock once the disease(s) take the weakest/most susceptible members.

Whether or not to continue under those circumstances, or to sanitize, pause, and start over, is a decision only you can make.

Yikes! They destroy for mycoplasma? Maybe a stupid question but does it have to do with your climate?

I will not destroy my whole flock. That has been decided right now with the current information I have.
I know I have some birds that are not doing as well as they were before nor can I say they will recover after seeing that autopsy report. The Dr seemed to have a grim outlook and I trust his professional opinion and findings.

My first and most important goal is to prevent anymore needless suffering for my flock. My second is to know how bad this really is. Was she an isolated case or are more suffering silently? I will keep a closed flock moving forward and take all precautions and maintain preemptive care moving forward. I think I need to have as conclusive answers as possible for me to achieve these goals.

And no, chickens keeping is most definitely not for the faint of heart. And I've had to accept some really hard realities which has challenged me to say the least.