Predator vs Black Chicken, Old Crow Medicine Show?

[Florida Bullfrog]

since chickens are not native and many hawks do not even know what they are.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I just think its a worth-while debate. So please don’t take offense to my disagreement.

As to this point I would respectfully disagree for two reasons. First, it seems like many predators that are still around today are generally good at quickly adapting to new prey. Many or most domesticated animals aren’t native to the Americas. It doesn’t stop predators from quickly taking advantage of them. For example, I recently had occasion to research jaguar predation on cattle in South America. Generally, domestic cattle make up about 32% of a jaguar’s overall diet in the study-range, and 7% of all domestic livestock losses in South America are from jaguars and pumas. So those cats have quickly adapted to introduced prey items.

Second, wild turkeys are basically North America’s woods chickens. There are many birds of prey in NA that prey on sub adult and adult wild turkeys. For example, northern goshawks regularly kill adult turkey hens. So they already have a proclivity to prey on large galliforms. A chicken might as well be a small turkey to them.

Along those lines, wild turkeys can throw all sorts of color variants. Yet natural selection hasn’t favored the unnatural color variants. If predators were generally weirded out by the off colors, the off color birds should survive at a high rate and reinforce their colors into the wild population. There are faint color differences between different groups of wild turkeys across NA, but its a matter of them being darker in this habitat or lighter in that habitat. The color ranges between them aren’t dramatic. Just likely tweaked according to which colors are most camouflaged for the habitat in question.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I believe people correctly observe that various black chicken breeds survive well on free range. They’re just drawing the wrong conclusion as to why. Many black chickens have within their background rustic breeds that are simply good survivors.

 

[Alexandra Runner]

Doing some shopping at the Local Tractor Supply on Saturday and one of the "Chicken Ladies" suggested we get a couple of Black Hens. She said that Hawks, Eagles and other birds of Prey would think they were Crows, and leave the flock alone. Has anyone else had experience with this "Medicine Show"? Does it work? Or is this their attempt to sell more black chickens? I mean, I have been wanting some Barred Rocks! LOL

Do you have a lot of crows in your area? I do, and I've never had problems with raptors, despite not having black chickens.

That being said, I don't think the whole 'Black Chicken' works. Predators are smarter than that! Plus, my local crows and my chickens DO NOT get along. The crows (named Tom and Sawyer for their peevishness, thievery, and general nuisancy - I've threatened to bean them with my slingshot multiple times for dropping things at me), used to stand outside my fence and mercilessly tease my rooster Jack. My new rooster, Matthew, has wisely learned to ignore them!

 

[GirlsHuntToo]

I think its a myth. Birds of prey have great eyesight. They ought to be abble to tell the difference between a crow and a black chicken by appearance over great distance. The science therefore proves the hypothesis to be very suspect.

Someone once had a good experience free ranging black chickens, and there’s probably a hawk or two out there that by individual personality have been weirded out a black chicken for any number of reasons, and that’s where the myth comes from.

I don’t fault someone for hypothesizing why a particular thing happens with their flock. I do that all the time. Sometimes I get more data that ends up proving my original idea wrong. But I think the “black chicken = crow” myth is one of those hypothesis that quickly turned into an urban legend via social media.

I have found the opposite to be true, and that hawks go after black chickens. I have had 3 hawk attacks, all of them on Barred Rocks.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I have found the opposite to be true, and that hawks go after black chickens. I have had 3 hawk attacks, all of them on Barred Rocks.

I sometimes lose black chickens to hawks. Sometimes I lose natural, partridge-colored, chickens to hawks. And I have several hens of those colors and others that seem to be hawk-proof. Some of my best free-rangers have been white. I aggressively cull against white, but that’s only because I find their feathers to be an eyesore in my yard when they molt.

I believe the alertness and speed of the chicken has a lot more to do with avoiding hawk predation than the chicken’s color. My flock is seasoned enough that I generally don’t lose adult birds to raptors anymore unless the bird is sick. I can look at a bird showing signs of sickness and predict its loss to a hawk within a couple of days. In a flock of athletic chickens, alert, chickens that are well-educated to hawk tactics, losses are weighted towards birds that have something wrong with them.

 

[McChooky]

Ravens and crows are related and have a similar diet Both include eggs of other birds, baby birds and chicks incl small chickens. A birds feather color can help it hide from predators and avoid detection but birds of prey will eat chickens and crows both.Crows sound alerts to protect the other crows and nests. Chickens will learn to run and hide anytime they hear a crow sound alerts

 

[texsuze]

My first loss of a hen in my very first flock was Esmeralda, a year old BA, to a hawk, only because Agnes Boss hen was broody and not "on duty" that day. My only avian predator loss in 14 years. Love the BAs and have always had some in my small flock setup, but I've had EEs and Dominiques too. We have plenty of ravens, red-tailed hawks and Coopers hawks especially this time of year. My hens have always seemed to be able to distinguish between turkey vultures, ravens and hawk species so maybe that helps them avoid attack.

 

[McChooky]

I'm thinking you're probably right. My thoughts were that it may work for a short period, but when that hawk flies over and sees those black chickens long enough, it's going to fly in and get a closer look. To the credit of the TS Chicken Ladies.... It is a good sales tool! LOL!!! I'll probably end up going to get some barred rocks here in a couple of weeks. My Golden Comets are approaching 5 weeks now, so I'll need to add some more chicks so I'll keep a steady production stream as they age out.

Thank You for the input! I like it when someone says pretty much what I was thinking. Makes me feel like I'm not quite as dumb as my teenagers think I am!

Thank You

I still get a lot of eggs from my heritage breed hens raised as chicks in spring of 2021 (Dominiques and barred rock) Heritage breeds live 5-10 yrs Hybrids live 3-5 yrs

 

[Mo_fawaazzz]

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I just think its a worth-while debate. So please don’t take offense to my disagreement.

As to this point I would respectfully disagree for two reasons. First, it seems like many predators that are still around today are generally good at quickly adapting to new prey. Many or most domesticated animals aren’t native to the Americas. It doesn’t stop predators from quickly taking advantage of them. For example, I recently had occasion to research jaguar predation on cattle in South America. Generally, domestic cattle make up about 32% of a jaguar’s overall diet in the study-range, and 7% of all domestic livestock losses in South America are from jaguars and pumas. So those cats have quickly adapted to introduced prey items.

Second, wild turkeys are basically North America’s woods chickens. There are many birds of prey in NA that prey on sub adult and adult wild turkeys. For example, northern goshawks regularly kill adult turkey hens. So they already have a proclivity to prey on large galliforms. A chicken might as well be a small turkey to them.

Along those lines, wild turkeys can throw all sorts of color variants. Yet natural selection hasn’t favored the unnatural color variants. If predators were generally weirded out by the off colors, the off color birds should survive at a high rate and reinforce their colors into the wild population. There are faint color differences between different groups of wild turkeys across NA, but its a matter of them being darker in this habitat or lighter in that habitat. The color ranges between them aren’t dramatic. Just likely tweaked according to which colors are most camouflaged for the habitat in question.

I agree with you, but it can also be noted that hawks do not have a straight drive to go after chickens. It takes a successful attempt for them to actually be interested. During a hawks first chicken hunt, they will not be that driven-to-kill and will readily back off if the slightest thing goes wrong (like if the prey decides to fight back or if a livestock guardian animal decides to intervene). If that first attempt goes wrong then that hawk will never be driven to hunt down a chicken again.


However, if that attempt goes right, that hawk will become a chicken eating machine.

I speak with knowledge from my uncle who is a falconer, and I observed a lot of his hunts with his Saker falcon. The falcon has incredible speed, but its used to hunting quail and small desert birds. Being introduced to a large pigeon, the falcon let the pigeon get away because he was cautiously chasing it. If that falcon had a successful attempt in catching the pigeon, he will have a stronger drive and catch that pigeon without hesitation, and he will never ever even dare to let that pigeon get away.

The biology of raptors is super interesting! but sadly thats not good for weak, slow, non-aggressive chicken breeds...

 

[SossFarm]

Do you have a lot of crows in your area? I do, and I've never had problems with raptors, despite not having black chickens.

That being said, I don't think the whole 'Black Chicken' works. Predators are smarter than that! Plus, my local crows and my chickens DO NOT get along. The crows (named Tom and Sawyer for their peevishness, thievery, and general nuisancy - I've threatened to bean them with my slingshot multiple times for dropping things at me), used to stand outside my fence and mercilessly tease my rooster Jack. My new rooster, Matthew, has wisely learned to ignore them!

We do have some crows around but as the fields and forest become a concrete jungle, we have less and less. We do have a nice family of hawks that hunt the area occasionally. I've always looked at it as a good "sign" like God was smiling at me when I walk outside in the mornings to go to work and I hear a hawk "calling me". I'm hoping I can keep them away from my Lady Friends so I don't lose that love of the sound of their call. My girls are still in the brooder box, indoors right now but that is about to change. They are approaching the 5-6 week point and are getting too big to hang out in the people house.