Prevention of COCCIDIOSIS and other poultry diseases in chicks~ ACV.

[Michael Apple]

Yes they are on medicated feed

I didn't know that was a problem-what does it hurt?

A couple days ago when you were asking for assistance, you said they were not on medicated feed:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/782569/im-new-to-chicks-and-something-is-wrong#post_11221887

That was the reason Corid was suggested, and due to the symptoms you described.

 

[sarajane]

Sigh. I put them on it at the suggestion of a local friend who keeps hers on it until they start laying. She's never had problems with cocci.

 

[Haunted55]

If they have cocci now and you have had them on both the medicated feed and the Corid....you may have to rethink how you are going to treat them now. What you have done by using both is cancel them both out and possibly allowed the Cocci to get a better hold in their bodies. I have not gone back and read every post made on this thread but you need to stop the medicated feed and continue with the Corid and watch to make sure it is still going to work. If you are not seeing improvement in a couple of days or they seem to get worse, You'll need something like Di-Methox to treat them.

I don't understand why you didn't take Michael Apples advice and just follow his suggestions. A quick search by you would have shown he did know what he was talking about and his advice should not have been ignored. I'm sorry,but all I can think of right now is how those little chicks are feeling.

 

[laurenhill11245]

Probiotics build the intestinal flora of the gut, regular use of ACV doesn't. Your lack of reasoning and the realism attributable to prevention of Coccidiosis will eventually cause you to learn the hard way. Don't say I didn't warn you.

I find this debate of such quite interesting and see points on both sides. I wouldn't completely rule out ACV Michael, it contains certain bacteria needed for the fermentation process and health benefits of these bacteria are stated in many scientific journals (I too am at university, in fact I am almost finished, my degree is in biology specialising in microbiology) Here is one of many scientific journal articles- SH Lee, HS Lillehoj, RA Dalloul, DW Park, YH Hong (2007), Influence of Pediococcus- Based Probiotic on Coccidiosis in Broiler Chickens. Poultry Science 86: 63- 66. I can however also understand the point I think Michael is trying to make which is, don't always believe every "natural" cure will work.

However Michael ans any microbiologist can tell you, building up microorganisms in the digestive system can prevent gastrointestinal pathogens attaching to the epithelial cells because there simply isn't enough space, they can also change conditions of the gut so they are less preferable to the pathogen.

 

[Michael Apple]

I find this debate of such quite interesting and see points on both sides. I wouldn't completely rule out ACV Michael, it contains certain bacteria needed for the fermentation process and health benefits of these bacteria are stated in many scientific journals (I too am at university, in fact I am almost finished, my degree is in biology specialising in microbiology) Here is one of many scientific journal articles- SH Lee, HS Lillehoj, RA Dalloul, DW Park, YH Hong (2007), Influence of Pediococcus- Based Probiotic on Coccidiosis in Broiler Chickens. Poultry Science 86: 63- 66. I can however also understand the point I think Michael is trying to make which is, don't always believe every "natural" cure will work.

However Michael ans any microbiologist can tell you, building up microorganisms in the digestive system can prevent gastrointestinal pathogens attaching to the epithelial cells because there simply isn't enough space, they can also change conditions of the gut so they are less preferable to the pathogen.

I'd be happy to see links to the articles. L. Acidophilus is the most important beneficial bacteria in a chicken's digestive tract which is not supplied by ACV. The origin of my posts reside on the fact that ACV (a prebiotic, not a probiotic) will not prevent, nor cure a Coccidiosis infection. ACV main ingredient is acetic acid. As bird's age, they become less acidic, so the supplementation of ACV could be beneficial by providing the prebiotic energy to probiotic bacteria in the digestive system of a chicken. Without probiotics, ACV would be worthless. The rampant recommendation of ACV for chicks and daily supplementation continues when Probiotics containing L. Acidophilus are far more effective for protecting the intestinal lining from being compromised by protozoans, E. Coli, etc. Some folks can claim all the health benefits of ACV without ever recognizing the environment/climate of which they live, and genetic resistance of birds they own may play a larger part.

 

[Beekissed]

In just a very short google search, one can find study after study on the positive effects of vinegar and other fermented foods on the intestinal mucosa health of poultry, pigs, etc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22936452

One done on pigs, same substances...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15027956

This one, in particular, is a study on vinegar and the prevention of Salmonella in chickens....

http://www.poultryscience.org/ps/paperpdfs/05/p0540515.pdf



I found this one the most interesting.... the title of the study, a small quote and the link is below the quote box.

Probiotic and Acetic Acid Effect on Broiler Chickens
Performance (link below)


Quote:

the growth of many pathogenic or non-pathogenic

intestinal bacteria, therefore, reduce intestinal
colonization and reduce infectious processes,
ultimately decrease inflammatory processes at the
intestinal mucosa....

http://www.usab-tm.ro/utilizatori/ZOOTEHNIE/file/REVISTA 2011/vol 44/1/Nutritie/Kral.pdf

What I do not understand is someone coming on BYC site to demand proof of the efficacy of vinegar on the intestinal health and pathogen prevention thereof when study after study is available with a simple Google search to support it. Since the banning of the use of antibiotics given to industrial poultry is happening in many countries, they've had to look for organic sources to keep mass produced poultry alive for the growth period required, so more and more studies are being done on fermented feeds and the use of organic acids~yes, even vinegar~ to keep their birds healthy until they finish out.

Yes, there are two sides to treating poultry for intestinal pathogens and parasites...one is preventative and one is... sort of curative...although it only cures for a short while until the birds get reinfected and have to be dosed once again. Why wait until your birds get a disease and then search for an answer when you can work on prevention and never having to experience said diseases?

Drugs are a nice, easy, quick fix...but sometimes they don't actually fix. Then they have to be given again and again. Then you have a flock of birds who cannot live healthy without medication administration. Some people like that method and that's fine. Some don't and so they research healthier and preventative measures to insure their birds don't have to suffer getting ill in the first place. I, for one, don't like to think about my birds having to get ill before I do something about their health.


Found another....

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-736X2011000200001&script=sci_arttext

Quote: [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To prevent and control coccidiosis, the poultry industry has relied heavily upon prophylactic chemotherapy resulting in the development of resistant strains of Eimeria to all introduced anticoccidial drugs (Chapman 1997). Therefore, recent research has focused on the alternative strategies for the control of avian coccidiosis such as adding acids in the diet (Runho et al. 1997, Thompson & Hinton 1997, Vale et al. 2004). In the present study, acetic acid administered in drinking water has shown the anticoccidial effects against Eimeria tenella in terms of improved weight gains, better FCR, lower oocyst and lesion scores. The coccidiosis can lead to enormous economic losses in the poultry industry due to the intestinal lesions caused by the Eimeria species and subsequent malabsorption of nutrients. The performance improvements observed while using acetic acid (particularly 3%) could overcome these losses.[/FONT]

 

[Bogtown Chick]

How are you raising your chickens? Pets? Food source? Eggs only? or Dual purpose (meat and eggs?)
How is your set up and impact on the environment they are being raised on? . Many birds confined to a run long term? or short term? Free ranging over several acres with only a few birds?
If you are seeing them as a food source: do you mind chemicals, pharmacology treatments for them? Do you want them raised chemical free and when you see one going wayward your intention is to harvest?

These are all questions you need to ask yourself and take what you will from these excellent links. I think both sides prove themselves for whatever you want out of raising your chickens. As every chicken is it's own individual with it's own predisposition for illness...I guess the best we can do is to make our own choices for what works best for us and what we want to ingest or not to ingest.

Pharmacology has saved many a pet, and saved money to some extent raising mass numbers of birds in small places making them "affordable" to the general public. It's worked but with some cost. MRSA resistant bacteria etc as a bad side affect. Personally this is scary to me. The politics surround the food industry is scary to me. Our government has too much control on what we're eating.

I chose a more natural approach myself.

 

[Blue]

I have my chicks on both medicated feed and have been adding ACV to their water. Double prevention! XD

 

[sarajane]

To Haunted 55....I didn't not follow his advice. No one said the med feed would cancel out the Corid. I'm not trying to make my chicks suffer-be nice....I was in tears all weekend over this. Geez. I took them off after a day of it bc they wouldn't eat it anyways.

 

[Blue]

To Haunted 55....I didn't not follow his advice. No one said the med feed would cancel out the Corid. I'm not trying to make my chicks suffer-be nice....I was in tears all weekend over this. Geez. I took them off after a day of it bc they wouldn't eat it anyways.

Don't worry over it too much.

You received advice from 2 different people and decided to follow both pieces of advice; it's not like you were intentionally trying to sabotage your birds. I know if I wasn't familiar with it already, it might not have occurred to me to think that the feed could interefere with the solo medication.