- Mar 26, 2012
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Well I certainly "learned" more from this post then I have in the past 25 years of raising pigeons.
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I have a hard time accepting Texas Pioneers as a heritage breed seeing as the are a relatively new modern breed. They weren't even recognized till the 60's as a breed, they have never gained much popularity, and they certainly are not a animal that's been passed down generation to generation a staple of any homestead. Maybe the real reason that no one has them is because while auto-sexing is nice if your a novice, its not that big of a deal pigeons aren't that hard to sex. Also they are not as prolific as many of the other squab breeds and there carcasses often have less meat. Now i can tell you from real life experience that these show birds you speak of have no more fertility problems then the utility birds, unless your comparing them too fantails which the problem is their tail not their reproduction organs. To say that infertility if being bred into them to sabotage squab is a rather silly claim. I don't know too many people who would care what you did with your pigeons as far as culling goes, most show pigeons or sport pigeons that don't make the cut get their necks rung or sold to bird dog trainers. Why would they care if you ate your culls? Sabotaging squab made me chuckle. I have a feeling your research has lead you to pigeon-talk forum which is far from reality of pigeon keeping. There are more breeds of pigeons then any other domestic animal so I am not sure exactly why its necessary to rant about the show breeds when there are many squab breeds to chose from. The show breeds are not ruining the pigeon fancy, if anything its helping keep it from slowing fading away for good.
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How many people do you really think want to eat pigeons? Not many when the public views them as rats with wings.The fact is the majority of these breeds would be gone if it wasn't for pigeon shows. There is no market for squab and if you want to raise meat for the homestead it sure isn't a very economical way. Have you seen the price of a pair of Texas Pioneers? They cost more then most of the fancy breeds. How is the search going finding this fabled meat breed? Not good huh. Why is that? There is not meat market all they have behind them is a good marketing plan. How many do you think are really selling? Not many or everyone would be breeding them. You could take a show bird like a runt, king, moraine, giant homer, etc and cross it to a homer and be well on your way to big squabs. Heck, you could even make the right crosses to auto-sex them. Now if meat is your real goal buy a pair of rabbits or raise some chickens and you will have far more meat in your freezer then you will from a couple pairs of pigeons. Break down the economics of it and you will never come out ahead unless you have free grain. Sorry but your so far off base, maybe you should actually raise pigeons first before telling everyone whats wrong with the hobby. The majority of people who keep pigeons don't show their birds either or breed to a standard but just like chickens the only people selling their birds for any amount of money are the ones winning shows or competitions.
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There is no taboo, there is no market. Pigeons breeders are some of the hardest callers of their stock out there. In my 25 years of actually owning, breeding, and selling pigeons I have never ran in to any of this and have a hard time believing it.
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Have you ever seeing a racing pigeon and a feral side by side, there is no comparison. The racer is a larger bird and much more robust then a feral. Go to a racers loft and hold one of his birds then hold a feral, there is NO comparison. Also when you go to a pigeon show, which apparently you have not pay attention to the classes. Maybe they have a utility class at 4H, which even mutts can compete in which is fine but at NPA sanctioned shows they don't. You also do not have your breeds correct, the MODAINE does not stand on its tip toes. Its actually a pretty "natural" shaped bird just large and a far better meat producer then a Pioneer. The bird you are describing is a MODENA, which was originally for flying in kits so I am not sure why you are comparing it to "utility breeds". Also Pioneers have never been that popular with homesteaders and haven't made a big impact on the pigeon world. To compare then to Californian rabbits/new new Zeland rabbits is silly, people actually rely on the rabbits for meat! More people have squab from homing pigeons then Pioneers!
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Kings are one of the most popular birds at shows. If you butchered at 30 days after 18 days of incubation you might get 2-3 pounds of meat. Whats the point unless you like raising pigeons? 12 squab might be possible but be realistic, its not going to happen unless its a commercial setting and by the way pigeons are not raised in battery cages. In 6 weeks I can butcher chickens that dress out at 6-7 pounds per bird and raise as many as I want with a better food to weight ratio. A pair of rabbits can put over a hundred pounds of meat in the freezer in a year. you would be lucky to get 20 from a pair of pigeons. Pigeons don't scratch and the first ones to get lost are going to be your fat utility birds. Pioneers have never been a flying breed and have no homing ability. They can flutter around but I wouldn't count on them finding much of their food.
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Homing pigeons and racing pigeons are bred for performance not looks and if dove like was better for races we would be racing ferals.
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I have a hard time accepting Texas Pioneers as a heritage breed seeing as the are a relatively new modern breed. They weren't even recognized till the 60's as a breed, they have never gained much popularity, and they certainly are not a animal that's been passed down generation to generation a staple of any homestead. Maybe the real reason that no one has them is because while auto-sexing is nice if your a novice, its not that big of a deal pigeons aren't that hard to sex. Also they are not as prolific as many of the other squab breeds and there carcasses often have less meat. Now i can tell you from real life experience that these show birds you speak of have no more fertility problems then the utility birds, unless your comparing them too fantails which the problem is their tail not their reproduction organs. To say that infertility if being bred into them to sabotage squab is a rather silly claim. I don't know too many people who would care what you did with your pigeons as far as culling goes, most show pigeons or sport pigeons that don't make the cut get their necks rung or sold to bird dog trainers. Why would they care if you ate your culls? Sabotaging squab made me chuckle. I have a feeling your research has lead you to pigeon-talk forum which is far from reality of pigeon keeping. There are more breeds of pigeons then any other domestic animal so I am not sure exactly why its necessary to rant about the show breeds when there are many squab breeds to chose from. The show breeds are not ruining the pigeon fancy, if anything its helping keep it from slowing fading away for good.
Quote:
How many people do you really think want to eat pigeons? Not many when the public views them as rats with wings.The fact is the majority of these breeds would be gone if it wasn't for pigeon shows. There is no market for squab and if you want to raise meat for the homestead it sure isn't a very economical way. Have you seen the price of a pair of Texas Pioneers? They cost more then most of the fancy breeds. How is the search going finding this fabled meat breed? Not good huh. Why is that? There is not meat market all they have behind them is a good marketing plan. How many do you think are really selling? Not many or everyone would be breeding them. You could take a show bird like a runt, king, moraine, giant homer, etc and cross it to a homer and be well on your way to big squabs. Heck, you could even make the right crosses to auto-sex them. Now if meat is your real goal buy a pair of rabbits or raise some chickens and you will have far more meat in your freezer then you will from a couple pairs of pigeons. Break down the economics of it and you will never come out ahead unless you have free grain. Sorry but your so far off base, maybe you should actually raise pigeons first before telling everyone whats wrong with the hobby. The majority of people who keep pigeons don't show their birds either or breed to a standard but just like chickens the only people selling their birds for any amount of money are the ones winning shows or competitions.
Quote:
There is no taboo, there is no market. Pigeons breeders are some of the hardest callers of their stock out there. In my 25 years of actually owning, breeding, and selling pigeons I have never ran in to any of this and have a hard time believing it.
Quote:
Have you ever seeing a racing pigeon and a feral side by side, there is no comparison. The racer is a larger bird and much more robust then a feral. Go to a racers loft and hold one of his birds then hold a feral, there is NO comparison. Also when you go to a pigeon show, which apparently you have not pay attention to the classes. Maybe they have a utility class at 4H, which even mutts can compete in which is fine but at NPA sanctioned shows they don't. You also do not have your breeds correct, the MODAINE does not stand on its tip toes. Its actually a pretty "natural" shaped bird just large and a far better meat producer then a Pioneer. The bird you are describing is a MODENA, which was originally for flying in kits so I am not sure why you are comparing it to "utility breeds". Also Pioneers have never been that popular with homesteaders and haven't made a big impact on the pigeon world. To compare then to Californian rabbits/new new Zeland rabbits is silly, people actually rely on the rabbits for meat! More people have squab from homing pigeons then Pioneers!
Quote:
Kings are one of the most popular birds at shows. If you butchered at 30 days after 18 days of incubation you might get 2-3 pounds of meat. Whats the point unless you like raising pigeons? 12 squab might be possible but be realistic, its not going to happen unless its a commercial setting and by the way pigeons are not raised in battery cages. In 6 weeks I can butcher chickens that dress out at 6-7 pounds per bird and raise as many as I want with a better food to weight ratio. A pair of rabbits can put over a hundred pounds of meat in the freezer in a year. you would be lucky to get 20 from a pair of pigeons. Pigeons don't scratch and the first ones to get lost are going to be your fat utility birds. Pioneers have never been a flying breed and have no homing ability. They can flutter around but I wouldn't count on them finding much of their food.
Quote:
Homing pigeons and racing pigeons are bred for performance not looks and if dove like was better for races we would be racing ferals.
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