Recipe Check please!

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks for your detailed responses. That all makes sense and is consistent with my general understanding and why synthetic methionine is added to so many chicken feeds.

Sure. I don't know anything someone can't learn in a few weekends of study. Well, some trivia, but most of what I answer here on BYC can be uncovered pretty quickly (and isn't particularly disputed) with just a little bit of research or a good keyword search. It was actualy BYC that led me to most of the research, actually. I only started my own chicken journey a couple years back.

 

[RoyalChick]

Actually, Met is very hard to get in plants, period. If you build to a 100g diet, you want a daily met level of at least 0.3% (more, much more, depending on age, breed, purpose) 100g of corn provides less than 0.2% - essentially, to meet Met levels w/ corn, you'd have to eat another 50% more - which has problems of its own. Most of the grains have Met levels (averages of about 0.2 - 0.25%) - once again, you can't met the desired Met levels w/i a 100g ration. Adding synthetic Met and Lys allows Purina and all the others to meet desired Met levels without either a lot of "waste" protein (that is, other excess amino acids the birds just poop out) and with less expensive ingredients overall.

To try and meet targets w/o using animal sources means a lot of certain legumes (like soy), which have their own problems and are costly. Using meals, an industrial by-product, like soy meal, alfalfa meal, etc both addresses some of the problems inherent in the ingredient and the cost issues. Even so, it can be difficult - which is why feeds carrying the "Organic" label can contain synthetic Met and Lys - because its that critical and there are no other practical alternatives.

Even so, total additions of synthetic Met in feed are limited by US law - its a help, not a fix.

A quick question - just to check my understanding - an alternative way to increase the methionine intake is to provide animal protein (I assume including fish).
I know many people will have reasons not to do that - but for the rest of us that would help get to the met levels that are so hard with plant protein. Correct?
I think mine get theirs mainly from bugs and worms but I do let them finish up any cat food that the cats don't eat and sometimes give them a meat bone to peck clean. I don't eat that much meat myself so that is a rather rare and much treasured treat!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

A quick question - just to check my understanding - an alternative way to increase the methionine intake is to provide animal protein (I assume including fish).
I know many people will have reasons not to do that - but for the rest of us that would help get to the met levels that are so hard with plant protein. Correct?
I think mine get theirs mainly from bugs and worms but I do let them finish up any cat food that the cats don't eat and sometimes give them a meat bone to peck clean. I don't eat that much meat myself so that is a rather rare and much treasured treat!

Yes, as a % of total protein, animal products (meat, fish, insect) tend to have higher Met % than plant products.

BUT!!! Keep in mind that most of the plant products we use are dried, generally to less than 10% total moisture. That 80/20 ground beef is 80% protein (or more), 20% (or less) fat, AS A PERCENTAGE OF DRY WEIGHT. Its still 75% +/- water. Effectively, 15% crude protein.

Most get around that issue by adjusting the 100g/day feed assumption.

 

[RoyalChick]

Yes, as a % of total protein, animal products (meat, fish, insect) tend to have higher Met % than plant products.

BUT!!! Keep in mind that most of the plant products we use are dried, generally to less than 10% total moisture. That 80/20 ground beef is 80% protein (or more), 20% (or less) fat, AS A PERCENTAGE OF DRY WEIGHT. Its still 75% +/- water. Effectively, 15% crude protein.

Most get around that issue by adjusting the 100g/day feed assumption.

Understood (I think).
Although isn’t your example 20% not 15%?
Out of 100g only 25g is ‘non-water’, and 80% of that is crude protein - ie 20g.
I am tired so may be looking at this wrong!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Understood (I think).
Although isn’t your example 20% not 15%?
Out of 100g only 25g is ‘non-water’, and 80% of that is crude protein - ie 20g.
I am tired so may be looking at this wrong!

Yes, I took 20% of 75 instead of 80% of 25.

I make mistakes too. Thank you for double checking my math.

 

[RoyalChick]

Yes, I took 20% of 75 instead of 80% of 25.

I make mistakes too. Thank you for double checking my math.

Funny. I was sitting here half snoozing in the Chicken yard and thinking I had messed up somehow.
Anyway, the point is the same.
Though I must say the jumbo grub that my hen Babs just consumed looks like it was a complete diet for the day. Probably all fat!

 

[Morrigan]

Yes, sometimes one of mine will get ahold of a mouse or lizard and scarf it down. It's a chicken bonanza.