Reintegration by supervised visits ?

No. A "cure" would have stopped the barking and spinning before it started rather than after.
Well, I guess you should have had a talk with whomever it was let the dog get to the age of ten without any manners and then dumped her at the pound.

You could have given them instructions.

I just fixed her issues to the point where she could be adopted and live peacefully with her new owners. That seemed like a pretty good deal at the time.
 
Well, I guess you should have had a talk with whomever it was let the dog get to the age of ten without any manners and then dumped her at the pound.

You could have given them instructions.

I just fixed her issues to the point where she could be adopted and live peacefully with her new owners.  That seemed like a pretty good deal at the time.


There was no judgement in my statement. You found a very workable solution to the problem behavior. I just wouldn't call it a cure is all.
 
There was no judgement in my statement. You found a very workable solution to the problem behavior. I just wouldn't call it a cure is all.
Okay....it did sound judgmental to me.

It did cure her of the habit of completely ignoring everything I told her, and doing whatever she wanted, including chasing the cat. She was a pretty hard case when I got her out of the shelter. I don't think anyone had ever told her "no" before.

Once she realized that I could physically reach her from anywhere, including when I was out in the yard and on the other side of the screen, then she decided that she should pay attention to what I said.
 
Okay....it did sound judgmental to me.

It did cure her of the habit of completely ignoring everything I told her, and doing whatever she wanted, including chasing the cat. She was a pretty hard case when I got her out of the shelter. I don't think anyone had ever told her "no" before.

Once she realized that I could physically reach her from anywhere, including when I was out in the yard and on the other side of the screen, then she decided that she should pay attention to what I said.

Gee, I wish parents could take some lessons. Amazing how many cannot control their own children :(
 
Gee, I wish parents could take some lessons. Amazing how many cannot control their own children :(
Yes, I can see it now...parents with spray bottles
wink.png


Fortunately my kids have done a good job with theirs, and they are well-behaved. But there are plenty of wild ones out there.
 
Whew!!... 2 months and finally things are back to 'normal'.
Congrats!

OMG, I am so not looking forward to this! I was hoping for just a few days.

I have 5 heritage turkey hens -- Stanford, Dorthea, Isabella, Victoria, and Camilla -- and one tom, DeLorean. They are 2 years, 5 months old, and were raised together since hatched. The pecking order is the same order as their names are listed. The first three hens are pets. Isabella is the most charming, goofiest little sweetheart around and everyone's favorite, but she is a "special needs" bird. She has a mild neurological problem that somewhat affects her eyesight and her perception of her surroundings, so she often misses important social cues and misinterprets what's going on around her. The other girls picked on her a bit when they were "teenagers," but as they matured they seemed to realize that she "wasn't right" and stopped disciplining her for her social indiscretions. She is very bonded to my husband and myself. When she was about 6 months old I was carrying Dorthea around in the yard and Isabella came running up to me begging to be picked up. I didn't want to create a demanding spoiled brat that always got her way, so I gently laid my hand on her neck, told her to wait, and continued walking with Dorthea in my arms Suddenly Isabella flew up and attacked Dorthea. I told Isabella "NO" and turned my back on her. Suddenly she was in a full out temper tantrum, and was violently striking out at everything/everyone blindly. For the next 2 months she would start raging and blindly striking out whenever she was handled or felt threatened, especially at bedtime. It was as if she felt that her entire emotional security had disappeared and she felt the need to defend herself during any social interaction. Only DeLorean and Stanford could make her stop when they gently pecked her head -- she became defensively violent with everyone else. Eventually she settled down and became a sweet little girl again. I was careful to never do anything again that could possibly cause her to doubt that she was safe and secure with me.

As she settled down to fairly normal behavior, she seemed to be in the middle of the pecking order, but it was a peaceful group. The two girls above her tended to ignore her instead of abuse her, and Victoria became her best friend and "seeing eye turkey." Whenever Isabella seemed disoriented or confused Victoria would go over to her, vocalize gently, and guide her back to normal activity. Poor Isabella can't easily graze, as she can't see the blades of grass clearly and randomly grabs at grass/dirt/weeds/leaves, etc, but Victoria would join her beak to beak and direct her to graze in the best areas where the grass is at its most tender and sweet They tended to wander side by side more than half the day. There was never any dominance issues between them. It seemed that Victoria had no interest in being in charge -- they were just friends. Camilla is often anxious and shy, and put herself on the bottom rank.

Twelve days ago Isabella had a serious medical problem, and had to spend the night in the hospital. She came home the next day and stayed in a large crate in the guest bedroom for a week to recover. After seven days I felt she was strong enough to spend a few hours outside in the fall weather, so I took her out to the flock. All four hens started trilling aggressively, and Dorthea and Victoria puffed up like a displaying tom. Isabella started to turn and run, but then suddenly changed her mind and decided the fight was on. I stayed between them to prevent any contact, but the threats got ugly.

Over the last 5 days I have taken her out each day. As soon as she realizes she is outside she starts challenging them. Stanford won't tolerate it, but shows her dominance by repeatedly pecking Isabella's head gently until she backs down. There is no longer a problem with those two. Camilla started to try her luck at domination, but one strike from Isabella and Camilla went running, so they're good. Dorthea will trill and attack whenever Isabella starts it, but will ignore her if Isabella stays peaceful. The problem is Victoria. Those two can't stop trying to kill each other. And that causes Isabella to try to strike out at everybody and everything, which reeves up the whole group, so suddenly she's surrounded by birds with huge beaks and long powerful necks, all trying to bite and attack her face. She's so defensive that she starts the whole drama, and I'm not sure how to stop it. The squirt bottle might work, but given her misunderstanding of discipline there's an equal chance that it will make it worse. The first three days she was so upset that she was back at attacking everything/everyone who touched her, including me. She was frantic and inconsolable. These last two days she has been more normal towards my husband and myself but is not giving up at attacking her flockmates.

The setup is a 20'X30' nighttime pen that doubles as a rain shelter, but they mostly free range over a fenced acre during the day, so there is no crowding, and there are plenty of areas available for escape or cover. The aggression from the flock would likely be easy to overcome if she weren't starting the fights. Given her disabilities she will never be able to be the dominant hen, so she needs to settle back into her previous flock position. In the last few days I have had to separate her from the others to prevent her from being seriously injured. I have been keeping her in the nighttime pen during the day while the flock free ranges for several hours, then trade positions so that she is out in the yard and the flock is in the pen. I've been playing musical turkeys every 2-4 hours. Isabella and Victoria spend 90% of the time on opposite sides of the fence threatening each other. I was hoping that they would tire of this, but their endurance is amazing. They're exhausted by the end of the day, but the next day they're back at it. She is still spending the night in her crate in the guest bedroom, since I'm scared that she'll get seriously injured if I let her spend the night with the flock.

I can't imagine going through this for 2 months!!! My husband has suggested just letting them fight it out until she backs down, but I suspect that she will become even more defensive if she has facial injuries, and turkeys really tear up each other's faces when they fight. I don't feel that is a good option with this hen.

As a complicating factor, I am planning on slaughtering the tom for Thanksgiving, so that may be another destabilizing factor for the flock, which may make the situation either better or worse, likely worse.

Any suggestions??
 
@Sydney Acres I have only this one experience with Penny's reintegration and only with chickens. But would think the challenge is the same for turkeys.

If they are always kept apart, they will always fight when together. The traditional look but don't touch separation does help to defuse the aggression and would suggest you figure a way to place her where they can see each other but not be able to fight. Once the aggression around the cage defuses, then begin supervised visits with the least aggressive flock mates. The water blast works and doesn't harm them.

I have posted my battle with the methods that worked for me, link below. Hope this helps:

Reintegrating a Recovered Hen to a Small Flock:
 
I would cull Isabella. It seems the most humane and compassionate thing to do for a bird with neurological issues that keep her from being able to perform basic survival behaviors. If she is also behaving in a manner that is inciting aggression from the other birds, her physical safety as well as mental well-being is at risk. I cannot imagine that hers is a comfortable, stress free life.
 
I would cull Isabella. It seems the most humane and compassionate thing to do for a bird with neurological issues that keep her from being able to perform basic survival behaviors. If she is also behaving in a manner that is inciting aggression from the other birds, her physical safety as well as mental well-being is at risk. I cannot imagine that hers is a comfortable, stress free life.

That is absolutely NOT going to happen.

I think perhaps you misunderstand her quality of life. She has mild neurological issues, not major. She sometimes misunderstands things because her perception is slightly altered, much as a young child might with a functional disability. She has no difficulty performing basic survival behaviors. She finds her bowls easily and eats and drinks well, maintains excellent weight, walks normally, flies very well and lands quite accurately (she can see large objects), and is everyone's favorite bird BECAUSE she is so playful, joyous, and interactive most of the time. I would not say that she has a stress free life, as almost no one does, but she has much less stress in her life than any penned turkey or chicken out there. She explores her tree-filled one acre yard daily, maintains a permanent nest under a huge fern when she's laying eggs, lounges in the sun with her friends, roosts in trees with her flock when they want to rest during the day, runs at full speed, joyously flies to me when called, comes in to her predator proof pen to roost every night, and is overall an extremely happy little turkey girl. She cannot accurately see each blade of grass, so she just grabs a mouthful of whatever is on the ground when she wants to graze, but that is why it has always been so sweet that Victoria took it upon herself to guide her to the best areas of grass and graze side by side with her in the past. Sometimes she does something that is socially inappropriate and will get a minor tap on the head from one of the other hens, and she just turns and walks away. That happens a few times a week, not minute by minute. In general she has an excellent quality of life that is happy, comfortable, and relatively stress free. And I want to get her back to that. Most flocks do go through some reintegration conflict when an old flock member returns after more than just a few days. For most birds it is difficult, but they understand what is going on and get through it. Isabella doesn't understand what is going on, only that there is conflict and she needs to defend herself, which she does without judgment, which sets back any progress she makes. So for her it will be more challenging to mediate, as her physical safety and mental well being absolutely have to be protected. But the goal is worth it, as her life was fabulous before this happened.
 

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