Retrievers vs Spaniels!

[ShrekDawg]

Omg I didn't even notice, lol. Autocorrect knows me too well.

Awww
I do love goldens.
I don't think I'd ever want to use one for hunting but they are great family dogs.

It’s hilarious because it’s so appropriate for the thread with them being bird dogs

 

[ShrekDawg]

When I was young my family raised Springers. They were sweet, wonderful dogs but pulling burs out of those ears was not fun. My first dog, as an adult, was an English Cocker. She was the perfect size for an apartment. I loved her dearly but she wasn't very bright. Then, I got married and we got our first Golden Retriever. My children are now grown and we are on our third Golden. I can't imagine a better dog, smart, easy to train, and so loving. So, as much as I like Spaniels, I had to vote for the Retrievers. Yes, we live with lots of dog hair (we call it golden glitter) but it is a small price to pay for all that love!

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I love Goldens so much!

 

[ShrekDawg]

This is Cody, the dog I bred Avery with. He is the one that weighs over 90 lbs.
He's full English and has a beautiful look. I think Avery's puppies are going to be gorgeous.
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He’s handsome!

 

[jdfog2]

Spaniels are sweet but they are just not as smart as a lab. They're decently smart dogs but my neighbor is a good breeder of English Springer Spaniels and has very good quality dogs and they're just dumb put up next to a lab.
That makes them more difficult to train and they are pretty hyper. They don't have an "off" switch like a lab does. You could work a lab until they passed out or died and they would just keep going but if you made them lay around the house for two months they would just be ok with it. I'm not saying you'd ever want to but the ability to tell them to be calm and have them listen is invaluable. I've started spaniels for the neighbor before and I vowed I'd never have a spaniel after that, lol. They just are not as easy to train, they don't catch on as quickly and it gets frustrating especially when all I had previously trained were labs.

I've also hunted with cocker spaniels, field spaniels, and water spaniels. They're all the same.

I've been around pretty much all of the breeds of dogs more commonly kept in the US, and even some very rare ones too, and if I were to ever have a dog besides a lab it would be either a well bred Border Collie or a German Shepherd.

I've not ever found any other dogs that measure up to those three in terms of intelligence and trainability.

Pretty much agree with this !

I'm 62 years old so I've been around a while and have had several dogs. I currently have (or maybe they have me), two Labs. And a German Shepherd. And one of our son's German Shepherd's lives with us. So we have 4 dogs in our house. All 4 are amazing.

I used to hunt a lot and I've owned another lab previously, two English Springer (Spaniels), one English Cocker Spaniel, and a Brittany which has been the "official" AKC breed name for a couple of decades or so. As to separate them from all the "Spaniels" due to the fact they point instead of flush game.

Of the Spaniels I like the Brittany the best. But the one I had was my "one dog of a lifetime" dog. He was special. And he was he smartest dog I've had of the sporting breeds, at least when it came to things like figuring out hunting situations. He was also very willing and eager to accept training and after he learned that training was fun he usually learned things quickly, often the first time we tried. I once got us lost when we encountered a snow storm while hunting in some draws in far western Oklahoma. I finally told the dog "Chance, let's go to the truck" because I was getting worried it was going to get dark. (this was before cell phones or handheld GPS. you know "ancient times" LOL. ) You guessed it, he led me back to the truck. And we didn't have to do a lot of backtracking to get there.

To be fair to our two labs, they have not gotten anywhere near the training the Brittany received. Once they learned how to be "good citizens" (basic obedience) we haven't asked much more from them. One of them still needs occasional refresher training because she thinks she's smarter than the trainer (me or my wife).

The Springers and the English Cocker we had were all from good sporting bloodlines. I am not sure I'd say they were "dumb" as much as I'd say they were "goofy" and slow to agree to incorporate the training.

(Brittany's are goofy but in a good way, mischievously). The problem with the Springers and English Cocker I had were they were just all a bit too eager. too enthusiastic, and they'd be like a student that would try to always jump ahead and solve the problem before the teacher was done presenting it. Or skip three pages of reading in the homework.

They DID kind of settle down and "figure it out" after two or three hunting seasons and a LOT of repetition in training. I had them before I had the Brittany and I think after the 2nd or 3rd training session with the Brittany when it was a young pup a light bulb clicked on in MY brain and I was like, "Wow, this is EASY" (compared to the Springers/Cocker)

Obviously, someone could have had vastly different experiences with other Springers and Cockers and my "sample size" of 3 dogs is probably NOT a true indicator. But, having been around a lot of other Springer/Cockers and Brittany's I feel like my experience is fairly accurate.

The one thing that Springers and Cockers beat out a lot of other dogs at is for sure sweetness. But sometimes that also causes them to be more "clingy" and have more separation anxiety when their handler / family isn't around.

Now when it comes to "smart" dogs, German Shepherds are wowsa! They are very intelligent, plus their stoicism and serious demeanor makes them able to soak up a lot in training sessions. The ones we have are just "average" (don't tell them I said that) compared to some I've seen in competitions, protection dog training, etc.

Our son is a K9 trainer so we see a lot of dogs since he lives at home (just graduated from college) and does training on our property.

JD

 

[SpotTheCat]

I haven’t read to the end yet

I only have a half lab (Fanta) and a puppy English springer (Pikelet) but so far the difference I have noticed

Pikelet is less handler focused then Fanta. Fanta wants me to be a part of everything she does, she’s having fun I Most know that and appreciate it! While Pikelet is much more interested in the environment, she will run off then come back to check on me quickly then run off again, she will run much further then Fanta did at her age. I have worked out this is because its what working cockers/springers have been bred to do

Pikelet is constantly on the go! From what I have seen retrievers seem to be calmer not to be confused with drive or energy! Pikelet rans first, thinks second

the tail only stops when the puppy stops I recommend getting a springer or cocker docked they are just going to end up hurting their tail!

Surprisingly I would say both Fanta and Pikelet don’t have a high prey drive, they do have prey drive! But I have found them very easy to distract from birds and other animals. Spaniels and retrievers have been bred to be able to listen to commands around prey, they aren’t like sighthounds and terriers. So I wouldn’t consider them high prey drive

I find spaniels overstimulating! Pikelet sometimes tires me out before we manage to get out the door when we are going somewhere

Pikelet isn’t impossible to leash train but she is difficult because of her behaviour I have mentioned before! She wants to run around! impulse control is difficult for her

Spaniels I think do need off leash time, I wouldn’t expect heeling from them unless they got their running around need fulfilled!

 

[SpotTheCat]

If they’re well bred though, shouldn’t they all be pretty much equal temperaments and stuff anyways? Can’t imagine they’d be that different maybe they are though, idk. A lot of places though, like my state, have laws about when the puppies can be sold too. Here it’s 8 weeks. If it works for you and the triallers and everyone though that’s awesome.

And wow that dog sounds really annoying LOL

And with Brew I’ve tried turning around and ignoring him, leashing him so I can pull him down, telling him sit, a stern NO!, etc. but nothing seems to work. I can’t remember if I have tried the knee thing or not. I wanna say I have and he didn’t care but I’m not sure. I might have to start trying that. Also he climbs on me when I’m sitting sometimes too so I feel like that might be hindering our progress? I should probably start discouraging that too cause I feel like that’s inconsistent and giving him mixed signals? I was going to try using his e collar too but idk if it would work. I feel like it would. I think I’ve used it before actually and it worked really well but I haven’t since so he still jumps. The issue is you can’t really correct him after he jumps because then he’s already done it and possibly scratched someone or whatever. That’s awesome you cured that other dog though!! I’d love pictures.

I would be very weary of punishing a dog for being excited to see me! not exciting the dog when greeting them and tossing high value treats down worked for me

I don’t think it’s supposed to be done hard enough to hurt them, just startle a bit. But I could be wrong. But the leash thing does not work for Brewster. I’ve tried it numerous times. He just pulls and lunges on it so he’s still able to jump.

the part of the chest you will hit is a extremely painful place my mother accidentally kneed Twiggy once for jumping up she went right back to it again the next day punishment only fixes the “symptoms“ not the cause so chances of them going right back to what they where doing before at some point is quite high! unless you “traumatise“ them, which is whether good or bad what punishment training does and they still can quite easily go back to doing it

 

[ShrekDawg]

I would be very weary of punishing a dog for being excited to see me! not exciting the dog when greeting them and tossing high value treats down worked for me

the part of the chest you will hit is a extremely painful place my mother accidentally kneed Twiggy once for jumping up she went right back to it again the next day punishment only fixes the “symptoms“ not the cause so chances of them going right back to what they where doing before at some point is quite high! unless you “traumatise“ them, which is whether good or bad what punishment training does and they still can quite easily go back to doing it

Thanks! Maybe I’ll try the treat thing first, idk. I will say though that we don’t excite him when coming in. I have a lot of visitors and they can be totally ignoring him or perfectly calm and he’ll still do it I also don’t think he would eat cookies in that state, he doesn’t tend to take them when he’s overstimulated, but I can try it. Maybe steak or something

 

[ShrekDawg]

I haven’t read to the end yet

I only have a half lab (Fanta) and a puppy English springer (Pikelet) but so far the difference I have noticed

Pikelet is less handler focused then Fanta. Fanta wants me to be a part of everything she does, she’s having fun I Most know that and appreciate it! While Pikelet is much more interested in the environment, she will run off then come back to check on me quickly then run off again, she will run much further then Fanta did at her age. I have worked out this is because its what working cockers/springers have been bred to do

Pikelet is constantly on the go! From what I have seen retrievers seem to be calmer not to be confused with drive or energy! Pikelet rans first, thinks second

the tail only stops when the puppy stops I recommend getting a springer or cocker docked they are just going to end up hurting their tail!

Surprisingly I would say both Fanta and Pikelet don’t have a high prey drive, they do have prey drive! But I have found them very easy to distract from birds and other animals. Spaniels and retrievers have been bred to be able to listen to commands around prey, they aren’t like sighthounds and terriers. So I wouldn’t consider them high prey drive

I find spaniels overstimulating! Pikelet sometimes tires me out before we manage to get out the door when we are going somewhere

Pikelet isn’t impossible to leash train but she is difficult because of her behaviour I have mentioned before! She wants to run around! impulse control is difficult for her

Spaniels I think do need off leash time, I wouldn’t expect heeling from them unless they got their running around need fulfilled!

This is extremely helpful information!! Thanks!!

 

[ShrekDawg]

Pretty much agree with this !

I'm 62 years old so I've been around a while and have had several dogs. I currently have (or maybe they have me), two Labs. And a German Shepherd. And one of our son's German Shepherd's lives with us. So we have 4 dogs in our house. All 4 are amazing.

I used to hunt a lot and I've owned another lab previously, two English Springer (Spaniels), one English Cocker Spaniel, and a Brittany which has been the "official" AKC breed name for a couple of decades or so. As to separate them from all the "Spaniels" due to the fact they point instead of flush game.

Of the Spaniels I like the Brittany the best. But the one I had was my "one dog of a lifetime" dog. He was special. And he was he smartest dog I've had of the sporting breeds, at least when it came to things like figuring out hunting situations. He was also very willing and eager to accept training and after he learned that training was fun he usually learned things quickly, often the first time we tried. I once got us lost when we encountered a snow storm while hunting in some draws in far western Oklahoma. I finally told the dog "Chance, let's go to the truck" because I was getting worried it was going to get dark. (this was before cell phones or handheld GPS. you know "ancient times" LOL. ) You guessed it, he led me back to the truck. And we didn't have to do a lot of backtracking to get there.

To be fair to our two labs, they have not gotten anywhere near the training the Brittany received. Once they learned how to be "good citizens" (basic obedience) we haven't asked much more from them. One of them still needs occasional refresher training because she thinks she's smarter than the trainer (me or my wife).

The Springers and the English Cocker we had were all from good sporting bloodlines. I am not sure I'd say they were "dumb" as much as I'd say they were "goofy" and slow to agree to incorporate the training.

(Brittany's are goofy but in a good way, mischievously). The problem with the Springers and English Cocker I had were they were just all a bit too eager. too enthusiastic, and they'd be like a student that would try to always jump ahead and solve the problem before the teacher was done presenting it. Or skip three pages of reading in the homework.

They DID kind of settle down and "figure it out" after two or three hunting seasons and a LOT of repetition in training. I had them before I had the Brittany and I think after the 2nd or 3rd training session with the Brittany when it was a young pup a light bulb clicked on in MY brain and I was like, "Wow, this is EASY" (compared to the Springers/Cocker)

Obviously, someone could have had vastly different experiences with other Springers and Cockers and my "sample size" of 3 dogs is probably NOT a true indicator. But, having been around a lot of other Springer/Cockers and Brittany's I feel like my experience is fairly accurate.

The one thing that Springers and Cockers beat out a lot of other dogs at is for sure sweetness. But sometimes that also causes them to be more "clingy" and have more separation anxiety when their handler / family isn't around.

Now when it comes to "smart" dogs, German Shepherds are wowsa! They are very intelligent, plus their stoicism and serious demeanor makes them able to soak up a lot in training sessions. The ones we have are just "average" (don't tell them I said that) compared to some I've seen in competitions, protection dog training, etc.

Our son is a K9 trainer so we see a lot of dogs since he lives at home (just graduated from college) and does training on our property.

JD

This is extremely helpful! Thanks! I love Brittanys.

 

[SpotTheCat]

Thanks! Maybe I’ll try the treat thing first, idk. I will say though that we don’t excite him when coming in. I have a lot of visitors and they can be totally ignoring him or perfectly calm and he’ll still do it I also don’t think he would eat cookies in that state, he doesn’t tend to take them when he’s overstimulated, but I can try it. Maybe steak or something

Hmm Maybe keep him away some how crate/leash/gate when you have visitors to where he is just under threshold and work on him ignoring them then? Throwing treats can also make them a lot more valuable!