Ross Cobs as meat birds

[dancingbear]

Bec, it sound like you did everything you were supposed to do. I read the symptoms of Newcastle's and it doesn't really sound like what's happening with your birds. I've never seen the disease first hand, though, so I'm only going by what I've read.

I'd be more inclined to think vitamin deficiency, or some sort of toxic substance, maybe from a contaminant in the feed or environment. Is there anything they might be ingesting that could cause a problem? They'll sometimes eat things you wouldn't expect them to have any interest in. Styrofoam, insulation, all kinds of inedible stuff.

How long until they give you the test results?

 

[becstar]

Hi guys! Thanks for your concern Still not heard from the vet (which I think is good news in that it's not ND). However, after Blue 90292 suggested looking at the disease page (doh!), I did and after some searching found someone else who had had what sounded and looked like from the photos exactly what my chicks are suffering from.
It looks like a neurological illness which can be triggered by infection through toxins, bacteria, mould, etc.
As my chicks are quite young, it is possible that they have caught an infection (probably when scratching around outside) and their immune system isn't yet strong enough to cope. Apparently young birds can lack Vitamin E. The good news is that if caught in time it is possible to treat, so I started treating the latest case yeaterday with the following:
1.5ml Vit. E with Selenium (twice a day)
1/4 Vit B tablet (once a day)

This is for the first week. After that it changes, but the vitamin E treatment is an ongoing treatment over several weeks.
Here is the exact link with the treatment suggestions on it in case anyone reading this needs it:

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=casestudiesemergencies&action=display&num=1160927052

So I am going to persevere with this and see what happens. There's no guarantees, but it will be interesting to see if the bird makes a recovery! Who needs vets when you've got forums full of such amazingly knowledgable people like this one!

Thanks again guys! Keep you posted. X

 

[Windy Ridge]

It sounds like you have a plan! I hope they feel better.

 

[blue90292]

yes, this forum is great in trying to figure out what is wrong with your birds. i recently did crop surgery on my 8 year old hen. i followed the instructions from others that did the surgery from the disease thread. i ended up pulling out from her crop 10 oz of sour food and grass. she's doing much better now (knock on wood) and has been alive almost 2 weeks.

it's amazing what you can learn on this board.

 

[dancingbear]

Bec, that's good news, I'm glad they at least have a fair chance to recover. I looked at the link you posted, that looks like an excellent source of info. I have a couple of comments and suggestions, though.

If your birds aren't showing swelling, I wouldn't give the prednisone. Even if they are, (now this is just my preference, if you feel you really need to use prednisone, then do so, and I hope all goes well) I would opt for an herbal instead, such as homeopathic arnica. My reason for this is that arnica is extremely effective, and homeopathic treatments (homeopathy using extremely tiny amounts of whatever active substance they're made with, to trigger the bodies own healing processes. They work amazingly well.) don't cause side effects. Prednisone can be some nasty stuff, and I wouldn't want it in my meat birds that I'm planning to eat later. When stopping prednisone, there can be severe rebound swelling, which is why you're supposed to taper it off, slowly. Arnica won't do that. Also, I don't know how long you'd have to wait to let the prednisone clear out of the bird's systems, but arnica could be given through th entire life if the bird, and still not pose a hazard from eating the bird later.

Also, the prednisone was recommended for silkies that had brain injuries, (because of the holes in their heads) I don't think yours did, so it may not be needed, anyway.

The rest of the treatment sounds good, though, I'm thinking it could work. I hope so, anyway.

As far as a mold or botulism, I think they'd be more likely to encounter that indoors, possibly in bedding, or in the feed. It's possible they got into something outdoors, but not as likely.

Vinegar kills mold and fungus, as well as a variety of bacteria, and won't hurt your birds. If you scrub the suspect areas down with vinegar, you'll probably get rid of the culprit, unless it's in the feed or bedding. A little apple cider vinegar in their water, wouldn't hurt, either. I'd use organic ACV, and if possible, one that contains "the mother", which is the live, active culture that makes the apple cider become vinegar. The less expensive, ordinary distilled white vinegar is fine for the cleaning, though, I wouldn't use the organic stuff to scrub a wall. You could even just spray it on the walls and floor, before putting down fresh bedding, if you don't see any visible mold or anything.

I'm getting over an illness caused by mold, myself. I have an allergy to molds. so I have to watch it. I have OSA, (obstructive sleep apnea) and use a machine called a CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) at night in order to breathe properly while sleeping. Anyway, I neglected to clean the water reservoir as often as I should have, and a little mold began to grow in it. (I know better, I just got busy and forgot to do it) I have a spare, and I'm stopped using the machine until I get this thing cleared up. I became very ill, but I'm treating it with herbs and essential oils, and I'm much better today than yesterday, and yesterday was much better than the day before. I'm using oils of oregano, cinnamon, and Moroccan blue chamomile, and doing saline irrigation to clear anything from the sinus passages. Not something you can do with a chicken, but just to show there are alternative treatments for a lot of things.

Best of luck, I'll be waiting to see what happens.

 

[becstar]

Big snaps to you Blue for carrying out SURGERY on your chicken!!

That's amazing!!!

Thanks for your advice DB and I hope you feel 100% again soon after your illness. I am sending out healing vibes to you

My fiance has recently been diagnosed with OSA and uses a CPAP. He has never cleaned out any water reservoir. I don't know much about the machine, but I didn't know there was a water reservoir. I will mention this to him and get him to check!

In relation to my sick chick, I am not giving them prednisone as I don't think it is related to a head injury or swelling of the brain - just the vitamins for a low immune system.

I didn't know that vinegar kills mould and fungus. I will scrub down their house again this time using vinegar and I will try to get my hands on some ACV to put in their water. However, the remaining chicks seem absolutely fine at the moment (touch wood), but I am monitoring them closely.

I know it's too early to tell, but I swear the vitamins are working already. Today will be the fourth day the poorly chick showed early signs of neck twisting and the third day it has been on vitamins, and I swear it's working! The neck twist isn't reversing, but it's not getting any worse either. By now, my other birds had completely twisted their necks 180 degrees so their beaks were pointing to the sky. The one I have now is tilting her head, but probably only as much as when it first started going - about a 45 degree twist MAXIMUM. I am very happy!

Again, thanks a lot for more good advice! Have a great weekend!

XXX

 

[dancingbear]

I'm so relieved that your birds are doing better, it's amazing how fast something like that can work. I've given vitamins to droopy chicks and had them snap right out of it and perk up. Sometimes I use herbs for my flock, they almost always respond just overnight. It's not something I have to do often, they're pretty healthy. If the vitamins are already doing the trick, you may not need the ACV. I like to keep it on hand anyway. We use it for other things, too.

If you do get some ACV for them, you can just put a tsp. per gallon in their water, you don't have to dose them individually. Watch and make sure they drink it ok, mine don't seem to mind it, but you never know.

How old are your birds now? What age do you plan to process them?

As far as the water reservoir goes on the CPAP they don't all have them. Mine uses warmed, humidified air, because dry air makes my nose bleed. Your fiance's may or may not have one. My DH uses one, too, (we match in several respects, it's almost a comedy routine) his has a water tank that he can hook up or leave it off, but it doesn't warm the air at all. We call them our alien breathing apparatus. I don't know if you've ever seen the sci-fi series, "Farscape", but the head gear for these things reminds me of something Scorpius would wear. (I don't know if you get many American programs, we get BBC, both on TV and the BBC World News on radio.)

Again, I'm just glad you've found the solution, and thanks to you Blue, for pointing in the right direction!

 

[ninjapoodles]

OK, wait--do I need to be watching "Farscape?"

 

[dancingbear]

Quote:
If you're a lover of sci-fi like I am, and it's broadcast where you are, then yes, definitely! I also love Dr. Who, Torchwood, and Primeval. I was a trekkie, too. Loved Star Wars, the first three, anyway. (in spite of some of the scientifically impossible stuff)

Nothing better than really good sci-fi. And nothing worse than really bad sci-fi. Doesn't seem to be much in-between.

 

[dancingbear]

Becky, are you there, girl? I know you've probably been busy. Just wondering how you and your birds are doing, hope all is well!