Self sustaining flock Questions

[mojoejoe]

Hi All
I am considering starting a self sustaining flock with Barred Rock chickens. I'm interested in eggs and fairly good size meat birds. I understand the Barred rock are pretty good layers, and, grow fairly quickly to about 7 to 9 lbs.

If I buy RTL pullets and purchase an older rooster this spring would the pullets reproduce this first summer, as in;
Do young pullets ever go broody thier first year?
If so would thier age contribute to them being successful mothers?

Any thoughts, ideas, other options that anyone might recommend?

Thanks

 

[Mrs. K]

I respectfully disagree. In May and June - when I most generally get a broody, the bugs are really coming out and going strong. The broody in July, is because (I think) we had too many dark days, and the birds did not get enough light.

I think that light has a huge influence. I noticed that people would start celebrating or complaining about getting broody hens much earlier in the spring than I ever had, so I started asking if they added light, and those that replied, said that yes, they did. Most of the people on here provide most of their chickens feed with a commercial feed, so I do not think that their intake of food quality falters that much, and thereby causing broodiness, which I am understanding as your view.

Generally speaking with animal husbandry, one gets better reproduction with good feed. Although I have read studies where people have brought in cattle and dry lotted (without feed, but with water) them for two or three days, then put them back on pasture and then added the bulls. They claimed a much higher and tighter conception rate, but it is not a practice that is either practical for us or interesting. We get very good conception rates by meeting our cattle's needs, pulling the bulls out and culling open cattle. I do realize that one cannot transpose studies across species, but I think it is the breaking of the fast with good nutrition that stimulates the reproductive track, not the lack of nutrition.

In poultry, if a bird is laying consistently, I consider her major needs are being met. If the worm load gets too high, or the quality of feed drops, or she just is not getting enough, the bird will stop laying eggs. A non-laying hen is not going to go broody, even though a broody becomes a non-laying hen, when her clutch is established to suit her. A well fed bird, who has her nutritional needs met, will put on weight, so that she can survive the setting for three weeks.

I think it has to do with the amount of light, or length of day.

Mrs K

 

[Ridgerunner]

Others have pointed out that not all hens of broody breeds do actually go broody. You certainly cannot time that either. I fully understand wanting a broody hen to do they work for you, I do also, but I raise mine for meat and have to use an incubator to get enough chicks to hatch at the right time of year for me. I’m collecting eggs right now to get an incubator hatch going so I’ll have some chickens to butcher before I run out of meat in the freezer. I’m hoping to have enough broody hens later in the year to not have another incubator hatch, but I’ll just have to wait and see.

How many chickens do you want to hatch a year? Even if you get a hen that goes broody often, you will be limited to two or three broods a year by the time she hatches and raises them. Bantams are limited on how many eggs they can hatch at a time, depending on how big they are and the size of the eggs. Many Silkies are bantam. Even if you are wildly successful in her going broody, one Silkie hen may not be enough for you.

One trick I use is that I often incubate eggs when I have a hen go broody. In the heat of summer a hen can raise more chicks than she can cover the eggs. So I hatch some extras and give them to her to raise. I’ve also had a snake eat the eggs out from under a broody hen. I hatched 15 for her in the incubator and she raised them all. With that snake she would not have hatched any.

I don’t know of any sustainable breed that is fairly quickly to 7 to 9 pounds. How fast they can put on weight can vary a fair amount between strains of the same breed, but you may be setting your expectations too high. How important is size to you anyway? Half the chicks I hatch are female and half the chicken I eat is female. There are only two of us. We can get two meals out of a hen so size is not that important to me. Don’t get me wrong, I like a nice sized cockerel. But I also enjoy eating the pullets and hens.

I like your flock size. My laying/breeding flock is one rooster and 6 to 8 hens. I eat about 40 to 45 chickens a year so that’s how many I need to hatch. I have been breeding for broodiness in my flock. Some years are more successful than others with broodies, but I usually get a lot of broodies. A couple of summers ago I had so many going broody I had trouble getting enough hatching eggs to put under them. My broody buster was full most of the summer. Broody hens don’t lay eggs while broody or for some time after you break them or after they have finished raising their brood. It was a nice problem to have but it was a problem. If I had not had a bunch of incubator chicks early in the spring before they started going broody I’d have run out of chicken.

I’s hard to say how many hens you’d need in your flock to truly be sustainable just with broody hatches. That’s a function of how often they go broody and how many chicks you need to hatch, and when you need to hatch them. Without an incubator you may find that pretty rough going with a flock that small.

 

[Life is Good!]

And another point, you don't always get enough pullets! Last year I hatched out 11, got three pullets. I have been doing chickens for years, but until this year, I have had to add chickens, or chicks, or eggs from outside of my flock into it. It sounds easy to be sustainable, but it is a bit more tricky than you might think.

Mrs K

We started a self-sustaining flock of Black Java's in April 2010. Bought 9 chicks - one turned out to be rooster, all's well. Purchased in April 2010, started laying in September, went broody in May/June 2011.

2011's first year's chicks all but one killed by an owl at about 16wks old. Grrrr.....had eight of eight broody hens. Didn't have eggs again until September!

Third year (2012), had 17 chicks hatch from those eight broodies. 13 were cockerals!

Determined we needed more homegrown meatbirds - raised Red Rangers. Nice birds, tasty, easy to take care of - meat lasted longer, as we raised 25. Just need big freezer to do this!

Fourth year (2013), had 10 broodies with 21 chicks, 11 hens! Ate the boys.

Raised Cornish X meatbirds. Hated them. Loved the meat, disliked the birds. Raised 25 birds.

Now on our sixth year, they've slowly increased the egg flock to larger than it likely should be - and the quantity of broody hens has remained the same. Yes, they've changed who's broody - but of our hens, not more than 1/3 are broody any given year. And yes, our original birds are still with us (all but one, killed by hawk). And yes, those original birds still lay and are more likely to go broody also. They're great momma's, even if they're starting to slow down a bit.

My point is - even if you have a dual purpose bird, it takes much too long to actually develop a self-sustaining flock, as most birds will only be broody once a year (spring/summer) - and there's simply no way around that. Now, if I managed the flock for purely our consumption, I would keep a stable flock of 9 hens, 1 rooster and eat the cockerals produced and replace the hens fairly frequently.

But that does not take into consideration that a flock is an organic component of individual, social creatures. When an owl killed one of a sister pair - the sister called for literally days afterwards trying to find where her sister had gone to. (She actually went hoarse calling for her sister). How can I cull birds willy-nilly based on production alone? Are there other factors to consider? And why do the cockerals know when it's time to select a new rooster? And how do they know none of them are the one to be selected? (We buy a new rooster every year from the farm they came from - over 100 trios of birds to mix the gene pool around). I cannot explain it. But they know.

Figure out what you are seeking - we wished meat birds - we order 25 chicks, grow them, send them to Camp Frigidaire, and enjoy what they offer us. We need egg layers - they have allowed us to give eggs to families in need, to the elderly we know and help others. Being able to enjoy our cockerals at our table has been extra - we do not count of it, but rather thank God for the provision, as we never know how many cockerals are under those broodies! Should we cull our main flock now that it's so big? Likely. Just a matter of time. But I'm taking my time watching the hens, seeing who's who and deciding what to do - this is a life we've taken care of from the start. I wish to honor that.

Good luck on your journey!

 

[centrarchid]

How do you 'promote the broodiness'?
Do you ever 'break' their broodiness?

I seem to be able to promote broodiness by restricting ration once a few eggs are laid. Hen then seems to exhaust her reserves with the production of a few more eggs. As the reserves are exhausted the hen looses weight. The weight loss appears important for ceasation of lay and start of broodiness. Speculation about reserves (see below).


With my free-range games where the process I have watched very close, hens come into peak weigh at the onset of lay. As they produced eggs they loose weight then they go broody. Weigh loss not consistent in degree even with same hen so I do not think it is weight directly they measure. Maybe it is medullary bone or some nutrient reserve needed for vitellogenesis. Normally / naturally the hens have a hard do have a hard time accummualting the nutrient resources to produce a clutch of eggs. Some nutrients they can build as they go without trouble. Our nutrient dense diets designed specifically to support egg production may enable hens to accumulate more nutrients delaying the depletion of reserves. With some chickens with higher egg production capacity that games either the birds are more efficient at uptaking the nutrients or the mechanism that monitors nutrient reserves is somehow different.


I have done some experimentation to support above.

 

[Chicken Egg 17]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/391589/at-what-age-do-hens-go-broody Here is a link telling wheather or not hens can go broody in there first year

 

[Mrs. K]

I agree

• older rooster,
• younger hens
• broody breeds or incubator
• full size eggs

And another point, you don't always get enough pullets! Last year I hatched out 11, got three pullets. I have been doing chickens for years, but until this year, I have had to add chickens, or chicks, or eggs from outside of my flock into it. It sounds easy to be sustainable, but it is a bit more tricky than you might think.

Mrs K

 

[bobbi-j]

You've received some good advice. I can't comment on breeds specifically except to say that if you're getting your hens from a hatchery, they may or may not go broody. Yes, some breeds are known more for broodiness than others - bantam cochins for one. They can be crazy-broody! The last BO I had, only went broody once in the 3 years I had her, and then it was too late in the fall, and she was in a bad place. So, I moved her after she'd been setting for a week, and she went bonkers. I moved her at night, as recommended, checked on her in the morning, and she was off the nest, most of the eggs broken. She never went broody again. If you want to hatch your own eggs out, get an incubator. That's the only way you can be sure to hatch chicks at a certain time if that's what you're looking for. Don't count on getting a broody, even if you get a breed known for it.

 

[mojoejoe]

Thanks again for all of the information. Truly a wealth of knowlege.
Since part of my goal is to eliminate me raising the chicks and then intigrating them iinto the flock, I will be "trying" not to use an incubator.
That being said I have summerized the knowlege and think the following would be my best set up for success. Please let be know if you disagree or have any further suggestions
6 barred rock ready to lay hens.
1 barred rock older rooster
1 "known to be more broody" hen. I hear silkies are good?

 

[centrarchid]

I can get mature American Dominiques to go broody twice annually. First year layers not so good. Game hens can do it three times annually with exceptional hens going four times when in good condition. This is were hens rear chicks to weaning / juvenile stage of 5 weeks post hatch.