SEVEN DUST for dust baths???

[the1much]

The theory of hormesis- a process whereby organisms exposed to low levels of toxins become resistant to tougher challenges. The aphorism, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" or as the 16th Century Swiss physician and alchemist Paracelsus wrote,"all things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose makes something not poison"expresses the theory on the common level.
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that whole theory has been dis-proven over and over,,,,is like them weird guys that think drinking snake venom will make them immune to dieing from snake bites.
it is also not a theory or practice used for any REAL scientific studies other then people trying to disprove an already scientific fact. we had many many conversations on this at the genetics lab.

 

[the1much]

Quote:
Sevin dust has the same ingredient in the same 5% strength as prozap poultry dust. When the same ingredient is used under the name Sevin people go crazy saying it will harm their birds. IT WONT!

or is it that prozap is hoping that people wont know its the same,, so they'll use it not knowing?
(i just spread sevin dust through my whole acre of chickens,,hehe ),,but will not stick it on them.and when the company themselves say they will NOT say it will NOT harm your chicks if you do dust them with it,,,, then that makes me wonder why.,,,and if the mites were bad,, and my chicks were suffering,,i would bath them in it for a week if i thought it would help and not kill them.i would say,,, it depends on how bad the "situation" is before id dust them in it,,,,,but how much MORE does it do better to dust them in it,, then sprinkle it everywhere and let them lay and roll in it?

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Prozap has 5% Carbaryl, just the same stuff Sevin has in it.

I had to dust my chickens, when I got them they had a big lice infestation. One dusting and they were lice free, no bad effects.

Dusting them is better because you can get it right down on the skin where they lice are. Thus killing them faster and getting the lice off of the chickens.

 

[cgmccary]

the1much:

that whole theory has been dis-proven over and over,,,,is like them weird guys that think drinking snake venom will make them immune to dieing from snake bites.
it is also not a theory or practice used for any REAL scientific studies other then people trying to disprove an already scientific fact. we had many many conversations on this at the genetics lab.

. . . and how long ago were those conversations? As with any scientific field, advances are being made daily; we used to sit around in geology graduate school and say what quacks were saying about the Cretaceous extinction being caused by a bolide impact and low and behold, then followed Alvarez's discovery of the iridium layer, then the craters and other iridium layers so what used to be students talking about "weird" science becomes almost fact with new discoveries (it was the same with plate tectonics before that)
. . . and well . . . . Hormesis is back in vogue. Dr. Mattson is a current Professor of Neuroscience at John Hopkins University and the Chief of the Laboratory of Neurosciences at the U.S. Nat'l Institute on Aging & Dr. Calabrase is the current Professor of Toxicology at the UMass School of Public Health and it is their work I am citing in comparing the various models and their promotion of hormesis in scientific journals (which if you want I can point you to) -- they are not exactly your "weird guys that think drinking snake venom will make them immune to dieing (sic) from snake bites."

Except for guiding me to a scary website by some environmental nut, nobody has shown me that if I eat sevin dust, then I will ________________________? or it will do WHAT? Again, we're not talking about smoking cigarettes or being exposed to Uranium (which we all know from volumes of studies is bad for you) but about dusting our chickens with sevin dust in the event of a mite infestation.

Incidentally though, nicotine is a poison. Using tobacco leaves or throwing some chewing tobacco in your run for your chickens (or tobacco dust) may well be effective against mites and worms (See Christine Heinrich's book "How to Raise Chickens"-- near the end of the book-- a blocked portion on using tobacco for chickens.)

NinjaPoodles wrote:

. . . makes me "come across as ridiculous" to you. What an absolutely arrogant thing to say, by the way!

I agree, and I apologize to you. "Ridiculous" was a bad choice for my comment and didn't convey what I meant: I meant that it weakens your argument. I just think it is enough to say until more evidence is in, I prefer not to use sevin dust on my birds.

I just think if you avoid the eggs because you use sevin to get rid of mites on your birds and that is your standard, then there are a lot scarier things out there: drinking out of plastic cups or avoiding plastics altogether-- this would be impossible and looking at all those other things one eats, the transfats-- peanut butter, etc. The one thing I can say about sevin dust is that there are a lot of poultry keepers using it & they have used it for many years and eating the eggs and meat and you'd expect there to be something else happening if sevin was causing some ill, that's all. Use it if you need it (if your birds have a mite infestation), be careful and thoughtful in using it . . . don't use it if you don't have mites. And I hope none of you have to deal with mites.​

 

[spatcher]

Again to reiterate, I dont much care who uses what on their chickens. If you use ANYTHING that is controversial, let the people you give/sell eggs to know what you are using. You people that use it yourselves get awful uppity when someone is in disagreement with you. Telling someone that 5% is okay but 10% is bad masks what has been written about sevin. All the references I make are in regard to 5%. Use what you will but do not lead people into believing its harmless. Its not, and if you use it and forego the warnings then so be it. Just dont lead others astray just because you use it and have had no problems with it. I often wonder how many people that ask about sevin have ever read my post. If I read it, I would never ask anyone "is it okay to use sevin?" Thats how people take things for gospel, from other poster's. Be smart enough to do your own research! Unless of course you are just posting stupid questions to increase the number of posts you need to increase your status on BYC! www.healthyworld.org/sevin.html Read it, heed it, or not! Once you have read it and decide to use it, God bless you! Just tell others to read it and make their own decision! Thanks and happy chickening!

 

[the1much]

Quote:
. . . and how long ago were those conversations? As with any scientific field, advances are being made daily; we used to sit around in geology graduate school and say what quacks were saying about the Cretaceous extinction being caused by a bolide impact and low and behold, then followed Alvarez's discovery of the iridium layer, then the craters and other iridium layers so what used to be students talking about "weird" science becomes almost fact with new discoveries (it was the same with plate tectonics before that)
. . . and well . . . . Hormesis is back in vogue. Dr. Mattson is a current Professor of Neuroscience at John Hopkins University and the Chief of the Laboratory of Neurosciences at the U.S. Nat'l Institute on Aging & Dr. Calabrase is the current Professor of Toxicology at the UMass School of Public Health and it is their work I am citing in comparing the various models and their promotion of hormesis in scientific journals (which if you want I can point you to) -- they are not exactly your "weird guys that think drinking snake venom will make them immune to dieing (sic) from snake bites."

Except for guiding me to a scary website by some environmental nut, nobody has shown me that if I eat sevin dust, then I will ________________________? or it will do WHAT? Again, we're not talking about smoking cigarettes or being exposed to Uranium (which we all know from volumes of studies is bad for you) but about dusting our chickens with sevin dust in the event of a mite infestation.

Incidentally though, nicotine is a poison. Using tobacco leaves or throwing some chewing tobacco in your run for your chickens (or tobacco dust) may well be effective against mites and worms (See Christine Heinrich's book "How to Raise Chickens"-- near the end of the book-- a blocked portion on using tobacco for chickens.)

NinjaPoodles wrote:

. . . makes me "come across as ridiculous" to you. What an absolutely arrogant thing to say, by the way!

I agree, and I apologize to you. "Ridiculous" was a bad choice for my comment and didn't convey what I meant: I meant that it weakens your argument. I just think it is enough to say until more evidence is in, I prefer not to use sevin dust on my birds.

I just think if you avoid the eggs because you use sevin to get rid of mites on your birds and that is your standard, then there are a lot scarier things out there: drinking out of plastic cups or avoiding plastics altogether-- this would be impossible and looking at all those other things one eats, the transfats-- peanut butter, etc. The one thing I can say about sevin dust is that there are a lot of poultry keepers using it & they have used it for many years and eating the eggs and meat and you'd expect there to be something else happening if sevin was causing some ill, that's all. Use it if you need it (if your birds have a mite infestation), be careful and thoughtful in using it . . . don't use it if you don't have mites. And I hope none of you have to deal with mites.​

most of those conversations were in the "years",,in fact a few of the professors at jackson lab has been there for many many years,,, and was their convo., that i entered into.so for a quick estimate,, bout 10 years long.

and you forgot while "advising" others on their standards to include breathing,,do you know how many chemicals we put in our bodies, every breathe we take.
and just because something can be lethal to you ( tobacco) doesnt make it a poison,,,,kinda like sugar,,,TOO MUCH,, and it will kill ya. and because someone wont eat eggs after using sevin dust,, doesnt mean they should worry bout plastic cups,,,, it means as an adult,, and givin the "input" she has gathered,, she feels safer NOT eating them.and for anyone to go against what they feel is safe ( no matter if they are over reacting or not) is more wrong then any answer on this post.
and tobacco is GREAT as a wormer for animals too

 

[the1much]

when i was talking bout 5% and 10% i was telling what the REP. told me,,,,,I (myself) wasnt saying either way,, was telling the info i received by the "party" we are talking about.

 

[dixie chicken]

I rarely have used sevin directly on my chickens except for a couple of cases. I had a hen sitting on some eggs in a room in one of the barns. This room had not been inhabited by anything but mice in YEARS and she got mites sooo bad her eyes were crusted shut and could not see. I put Vet RX on her eyes and head and dusted her and the room with 10% Sevin. She got better with more applications of the Vet Rx and hatched her eggs with healthy chicks. This room was thouroughly cleaned before she was placed in it but mites are hard to kill. I now lightly dust the walls and the floors under the litter of all my coops when I do a complete coop clean which is 3 -4 times a year. I check my chickens vents periodically and have seen no signs of bugs. I learned to use sevin from some old timers and trusted their advice. I use it sparingly. I have put diotomaceous earth in dust baths for my chickens in the past. I think chemicals and meds are good when used properly. I know this is a sticky subject and if you read any insert for any drug it will scare the h*** out of you. Just listen to the drug comercials on tv. To each his own. I just thought I would share my experience.

 

[walkswithdog]

Are pyrethrins in a different class? Less hazardous? More?

I have food grade DE and the DE/P I use for the garden. I love both. If I ever see mites I know the DE/P is pretty effective. Hadn't really looked into it's hazards with - or lack there of with poulty.

I used the DE/P to kill this huge outbreak of chiggers. Ugh. Boy they got me bad first too. Talk about itchy pants. <grim face>

I hate mites and lice after so many years working with animal control. Fleas and ticks aren't favorites either, god bless Frontline.

Pyrethrins safe for featheredbutts?

Thanks.

 

[spatcher]

That wasnt for you that1much! Was for some of the previous posts.