Should I switch to Non Medicated food?

[Ridgerunner]

Corid is being removed from US feed stores on June 11th though?

Since the active ingredient in Corid is Amprolium and Amprolium is not an antibiotic I don't think Corid is to be removed in a few days. I could not find it on any lists though I'll admit I did not look real hard. I'm guessing when they published those guidelines they gave them two ears to comply. This is an excerpt from something I found online.

Because of this, on June 11, 2021, the Food and Drug Administration quietly published Guidance for Industry #263 which put in motion the framework to remove any remaining medically important antimicrobials from OTC marketing channels,

@LMA84 I'll copy something I wrote a few years ago about medicated feed and Coccidiosis. I know it is a long read and most people aren't going to bother. I think it will answer all your questions but if you read it and still have questions I'll be glad to reply.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

 

[ForFlocksSake]

Since the active ingredient in Corid is Amprolium and Amprolium is not an antibiotic I don't think Corid is to be removed in a few days. I could not find it on any lists though I'll admit I did not look real hard. I'm guessing when they published those guidelines they gave them two ears to comply. This is an excerpt from something I found online.

Because of this, on June 11, 2021, the Food and Drug Administration quietly published Guidance for Industry #263 which put in motion the framework to remove any remaining medically important antimicrobials from OTC marketing channels,

@LMA84 I'll copy something I wrote a few years ago about medicated feed and Coccidiosis. I know it is a long read and most people aren't going to bother. I think it will answer all your questions but if you read it and still have questions I'll be glad to reply.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Thank you! This is incredibly helpful!!

 

[SandyRiverChick]

Am I overthinking?

I've given Medicated and had chicks turn up with Coccidiosis and I've given Un-Medicated, no Coccidiosis and visa versa. It's really about what's going on in soil and I can't put 5acres under a microscope. You've done the right thing by ordering and having Corid on hand in the event of Coccidiosis. I picked up a bag of starter/grower and because I didn't have glasses with me, I didn't know if it was Medicated or not. I don't care anymore, It's such a small amount of Medication.

 

[K0k0shka]

Medicated starter won't hurt them in any way, so there's no harm in giving it to them. They are developing their own resistance with or without it, so having a little help isn't a bad thing. And medicated feed isn't necessarily pricier. With Purina's grower feed, the medicated is actually one dollar cheaper than the non-medicated at TSC. It's good to have corid on hand, but prevention is better than treatment, so I always feed medicated starter regardless of whether my chicks are in a brooder in my house or out with a hen (I usually have some of each every year). When I have chicks with the flock, the whole flock eats the medicated starter because I don't want to have to separate who eats what. Then when they finish the bag, I switch everybody to flock raiser (always with calcium on the side for the layers).

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

@LMA84 I'll copy something I wrote a few years ago about medicated feed and Coccidiosis. I know it is a long read and most people aren't going to bother. I think it will answer all your questions but if you read it and still have questions I'll be glad to reply.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

This is great information. If "most people think it's too long to read and so don't bother", it's their loss. Thanks for writing it, and explaining coccidiosis so well.

 

[Penpal]

Please note. If you also have ducklings you can't feed them the medicated. The bag of feed will show either ducklings and chicks, or only chicks.

 

[BastyPutt]

For anyone here...

The proper procedure, especially if removing med feed while a new pullet/cockerel is outside, is to titrate the birds off of it over a course of 10 days.

You do this by purchasing the same crumble or pellet you are feeding, but non medicated. You don't have to be exact, but you certainly can - and begin mixing them together. Make sure that you mix it well before adding it to the feeder. Lower totem pole birds could end up eating all non med or vice versa. By day 10, there should be 10% med feed and 90% non med feed.

The idea is the chick begins to buildup their own bacteria, while still being supplemented by the Amprolium in the feed. If you remove it entirely, you are exposing a chick who hasn't needed to build bacteria, to a much higher exposure count.

 

[BastyPutt]

Please note. If you also have ducklings you can't feed them the medicated. The bag of feed will show either ducklings and chicks, or only chicks.

The pictures can be deceiving on the bags, but you are correct.

Guineas, turkeys, ducks, quail - all should avoid being fed medicated feed.

Meat bird, turkey/pheasant or game bird crumbles are all good alternatives for these birds.

 

[ringaring]

I am so confused by the medicated vs. non medicated topic. I know its to help prevent Coccidiosis but read they should only be on it for the beginning of life? I have a 5 lb bag that's almost empty. the first 2 days I had them on non medicated but quickly switched to medicated after we had a chick die suddenly. No rhyme or reason but I just felt better getting medicated. Should I switch back to non?

I also saw here on the forum lots of talk about treating with Corrid if a chick or chicken shows signs of Coccidiosis. Where does one get this? is the something I should have on hand when raising chickens? Am I overthinking? I may be assuming this is more of a problem than it actually is.

A more natural, less expensive but equally effective preventative is Apple Cider Vinegar (with the Mother) in their water - 2.5 - 3ml in 1 liter of fresh water every 3 days. It's also safe for other poultry that should not have medicated chicken feed, like ducks. We have used it for yrs for chickens of all ages, also put a tbs in our dog's drinking water for gut health. It must say on the label that it has "the Mother".

 

[bradley10466]

I was faced with the same dilemma as you. First time chicken tender, I did a lot of research. I came to the conclusion that if you brood indoors for 6-7 weeks, their immune system is developed enough to send them outside. There is no substitute for a clean, and dry environment when brooding also. If you brood outside, then I would recommend medicated feed. If you feed medicated feed, be sure and have them weaned from it before their first eggs. I've read that the medication will be in the eggs and shouldn't be eaten. Keep corrid on hand.