Spooky puppy problems

[cassie]

I have a suggestion for the car. Put him on a leash. Take him to the car. Make him sit, give him a treat, and then take him away from the car. Repeat that a few times. Next day do the same thing but this time put him in the car. Sit and fuss with him a bit, give him a treat, and take him out of the car and walk him away. Maybe repeat this a couple times. Next day put him in the car and start it. Let the car run a few minutes but don't go anywhere. Fuss with him, give him a treat, and then leave the car. Next day maybe go around the block or equivalent. Keep gradually working up to more car time. He may never learn to love car rides but he can learn to tolerate them.

 

[getaclue]

This pup is only 18 weeks old. In that time, the first time it probably rode in a car, was to go to a strange place, with strangers, that were inexperienced people, and were not well suited for the dog. In a short time, the pup was again put into a car, probably his second car ride, and taken to yet another strange place, with strangers. He took a car ride to the vet, which is another stranger, doing uncomfortable things to it. Are we starting to see why the pup is scared of getting in the car? Are we starting to see why it has a bit of a confidence problem?

It arrives to your place. Just learning the new place, and getting to know you, are actually training to the pup, just not obedience type training. At this time, you seem reluctant to let it in it's own backyard due to the tapeworm situation. It's had it's first treatment, and as long as you follow up on time, it should be fine to allow your dog into your yard. If you're concerned, grab some grocery bags, and clean up after it when it poohs.

Remember, this pup, in it's short life, each time it's tried to bond with humans, it has not worked out. Give it more time to bond with you, so it can arrive at the understanding that you, and it's new home is permanent. In the meantime, the only thing I'd be training it right now, is sit. Remember to tell it to sit, each and every time you open the door. That way the pup will learn not to try dashing out the door when you open it. Use lots of positive reinforcement, not just treats. When it seems to be scared, pet it, pull it close to you, talk to it. Show it that whatever it's afraid of is ok, whenever possible. When the dog is better bonded, and more confident in you, it will also gain more confidence in itself. Once it's more confident, then you can add one more command along with sit. Training sessions should be about 15 minutes 2 - 3 times a day. Allow a couple weeks, then add another command, or improve leash training with the word heel. Each time you take it out, and it begins to potty, SAY potty, potty, potty, potty, until it finishes. While this is not training, like the word sit, it won't be long that you can let, or take the dog out on a rainy day, or when you're in a hurry, and say potty, potty, potty, and it will trigger a potty response.

To help with the car, in a couple weeks when the pup is a bit more settled, cover the seats, and flooring with some plastic drop cloth, a shower curtain liner, a tarp, or whatever you have, and take it for a short ride around the block talking to it constantly, then when you get home, give it a treat. Do this every day for awhile. IF after a week of this it still throws up in your car, be aware that some dogs do get motion sickness. I had 4 Chow Chows that love riding in my SUV, but one that got motion sickness, would throw up, and didn't really like going for a ride. You'll probably know at the time whether it's fear, or motion sickness.

When it's more acclimated to you, and it's yard, is a good time to begin some basic leash training. I like to begin with a harness, instead of a collar. If walking around the block is too stressful, walk half way down your block, then turn around, and head home. Get it used to seeing other dogs, cats, squirrels, people, etc., but not trying to go after them. Don't forget to use sit, if the dog wants to chase a cat, or squirrel for example. Teaching it to herd now, is too soon. That will come in time, and when you have something it can herd.

I hope this has helped some.

 

[chickens really]

He looks more Border Collie than Aussie. What a cute puppy..

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Just as a heads up, I'm REALLY not looking for really basic training advice. I have worked with/assisted certified dog trainers as they trained their own dogs, have two well trained dogs of my own, have trained dogs for my sisters, trained stray dogs before they went into rescues, and been paid to train puppies their basic commands and ground manners before... So rest assured that I have a long history in training basics and manners. But because of that reminders of very beginner information (ex, 'Did you know your dog is scared for reasons? Are you aware of how to train this basic command? Did you know dogs need praise? Does that help to know?') are probably well meaning actually rather unhelpful because even a plainly truthful sort of response is going to be unflattering.
I may not have made this need and experience clear enough in my first post, I'll update it to reflect that.

But! That is why I specifically asked for experiences and techniques from your own situations. I'd like to hear YOUR stories about direct experience with fearful dogs and working through them. I'm really more hoping for novel ideas than a rehash of what any google search could tell me. I like the idea of the trashcan in the agility course for example. Given his fear of strange objects teaching him to jump onto strange objects and make it fun is a great way to potentially get him used to that. Of course, right now we're doing things like cassie's suggestion. It's going to be hard to get him to climb on something new when he won't even walk past it without flipping out. But novel ideas are highly welcome.
Additionally hearing about other people's successful experiences in similar situations is encouraging. It can be hard to keep an eye on the prize sometimes when he's suddenly decided that a mundane object is scary. Stories of successful behavior changes or management help ME with that. And a more focused me is going to lead to more successful training.
The article on single incident learning is interesting. I'm not sure it applies to this persay, he seems to have more of a generalized anxiety from lack of positive experiences. But I'm going to keep it in mind for the future.

As for the tapeworms, our follow up treatment is in a couple weeks. Once we know he's tapeworm free he can go in the back yard. The last thing I need is tapeworms in my chicken flock or, worse, my rabbits. Nor do I need it in the neighborhood rats. All it takes is one missed bit of poop, which is very possible in the back yard because there's a lot of tall plants and it's a large space. Given that knowledge and his spookiness, it's fair to say we can wait a week or two before digging into the farm space. It will help when it happens but I'm not willing to risk the biosecurity of my whole farm area over an extra couple weeks. We're all looking forward to it - and we all know it can wait.

To be honest, he didn't come with papers so he could theoretically be a mix for all I really know but he was bought from a breeder and I was told the breeder said pure aussie. It's all very second hand knowledge as rehomes usually are and the past owners are not super up front with information tbh.
Having said that, I expect he'll fill out. The husky in those photos looked a lot like him as a baby actually (build and fur wise) and now look at her. My understanding is also that there's two major lines in aussies, the show lines and the stock dog lines and the stock dog ones are a little more like border collies in their build. But we'll see. He's a pet first and a working dog second anyhow.

For today's update: He's already ringing his bells to go out to potty every time, totally unprompted. Before we were just sitting at the door before going out but it's been less than two days since I taught him how to touch the bells and he's already ringing them to go out. He's completely mastered 'sit' and does it as well as my two adult dogs now, both on and off leash and with or without the other dogs around. He even sits when highly distracted. He's almost got 'down' and 'touch' as well as he has 'sit'. We're still learning 'paw' a bit but he knows what the command means now and gives paw hesitantly but consistently. He won't give paw when distracted at all yet. He's already got a great recall both on and off leash, but we're enforcing it a lot more right now and doing a little more name work. I want him to look at me more consistently when I say his name in certain tones and while he certainly knows his name right now he also chooses to ignore it sometimes.

The scary things on walks are always weird. Today in the morning he was totally fine with moving cars, even tried to follow a couple curiously that were moving slow. But the parked cars were extremely scary. And the small front loader rebuilding part of the sidewalk and a driveway was totally chill. He barely even cared when we walked past it about 15 feet away while it was moving. But the person inside of it getting out resulted in a couple quiet barks, and a truck on a neighboring road going over a bump with a bit of a bang was the worst. He literally jumped into the air, spun around, fought on the end of his leash and then layed down with his ears back and wouldn't move for a bit after that. We had a little sit down and then did a couple tricks until he was calm enough to walk nicely again.

As for our car, he doesn't care about the car parked in OUR driveway at all and has even climbed into it willingly. The sounds of other cars OUTSIDE our car while we're driving, however, are very scary. And he gets a bit carsick. It's OTHER parked and moving cars he's scared of. I can't exactly let him climb into those, unfortunately. I may orchestrate something with some friends to have them park their cars on the streetside for him to investigate more closely. Right now we're just giving him a reward whenever he sniffs a strange car or an especially loud car goes by and that's working out.

Today or tomorrow a friend is going to take us on an adventure to a pet store - the same one he did well at when he got his tapeworm treatment. (Our normal vet was closed for a week so we went to a clinic.) We need to get more training treats. We'll see how that goes.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I'm always curious about the idea of 'not responding to fear'.
I think the only way to build confidence is to respond to it, because frankly it's just going to traumatize him to not respond at all. Like if he flips out on the end of his leash and I just DRAG him past it's not going to end well. If I don't respond at all and force him into scary situations where I'm confident but he isn't I think the fear will just get worse. And sometimes animals, like people, just need time to work through their emotions somewhere safe. I hear what you're saying about the vet offices - I see it a lot too - but I think there's a difference between responding with praise and responding by creating security.
So I think it's less about not responding than it is about responding well.

Right now our main technique is redirection. He's scared of the trashcan, so I move close to it and ask him to come and if he does then he gets a treat. Then we may do a trick or two for a low value treat each like a piece of kibble or two while we're close to the can to redirect the experience from being about the trashcan to being about the trick training. Once he's fully focused on that and not the trashcan we try to walk past it again. If he stops and flips out, we move close to the can for a treat again and do a few more tricks then try to walk past again. If he walks past successfully he gets a lot of praise and high value treats (the soft bacon cheddar treats PetPeople has are his favorite so far, but the Bil Jac liver treats are liked as well). Real basic stuff to desensitize him to the scary and teach him to walk past.
We're doing other things too. Sometimes we do the move close, then sit, then reward, then move away like cassie suggested. Another thing we've been doing is I'll make a line of low value treats along the path I'd like him to follow then let him focus on following the snacks not eyeing the cans as we go past. Sometimes I carry a squeaker toy on me to distract him as we walk past (not as effective as the other techniques). I can't do the same thing every single time, he gets fed up with repetitive tasks VERY quickly (within a minute of three) so if he's failing on our main strategy repeatedly I have to change it up or abandon trying to get him past. I think it's more productive to try something new and see if he responds then to give up and walk away.

I think what's been helping most for my goals though is teaching him to respond to Scary Things by approaching it and facing it. Now when we walk past the trashcans and he fails, we turn around and he starts trying to sniff the trashcans. He's still scared when he does it (stretching out, keeping his butt as far from the cans as he can, shaking a little) but he does it unprompted sometimes now, and he gets praised for it.

So when he sees something scary, I've been praising him for looking at it ears and head up instead of just running ears back and crying. I'd like him to face things that are scary and confront them and his attitude is notably changing. I think this is why he's begun to sort of eyeball and follow some of the slower moving cars we've seen, or watch humans with less fear like the girl on her bike yesterday, instead of running and flipping out.

 

[21hens-incharge]

..........

He has a fear of trash cans.......

He was said to have separation anxiety........

....just wondering.......

Is it possible he demolished the former owners house....including stringing trash everywhere and was perhaps "punished" harshly especially about the trash????

He may be associating the smell of the cans with a traumatic event that could have happened just a week ago......

 

[ChocolateMouse]

It's possible since I know so little about his past. But that doesn't account for his fear of parked cars, fire hydrants, people, tree stumps, box fans, folding tables, water bottles, doorways, traffic cones, lawn flags, etc etc. And honestly the people who had him seemed nice enough, just not dog competent and definitely not ready for a high-maintenance super-smart puppy with separation anxiety.
(Mind you, the anxiety is what they say. But he slept without other people in the room, in a crate for two hours without a peep while I went across the street for my sisters for dinner... But my other two dogs were in the room and they said he's fine if other dogs are there. But I haven't seen that sort of anxiety.)

Also, by 'trashcans' I don't mean normal trashcans like in the house. We have these huge, 4' tall rolling trashbins that are green. They get picked up by this huge truck with an arm and are provided by the city to fit the truck. He could not care less, for instance, about the trash cans in the kitchen. But walking down the road on a trash day is a herculean task. He has problems with lawn bags too.

 

[21hens-incharge]

We have the big cans like that too. My dogs bark at the trash truck.....maybe it is that particular noise he dislikes about those.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

He was scared of them before the trash truck even went by. It's pretty clear that they're just Big and New and that means Scary.
But only some things like that are scary because the front loader was easy to ignore so...???
I mean, I'm trying to find a rhyme and reason for it but there just isn't one that I see. Some things make sense like loud sounds or big objects that weren't there yesterday, like OK. But small things that make no sounds scare him too sometimes. And sometimes things you'd EXPECT a dog to trigger on he doesn't. Like some cups fell off a table yesterday (plastic) and made a loud sound. My big kids both jumped and he didn't. Or the front loader. I'd have a battle on my hands tryna get my senior girl to walk that close to a front loader that was moving. And then earlier in the week we spent several minutes investigating a sweater someone dropped on the edge of sidewalk cause it was too scary to walk past.
Since I can never know what's going to scare him next, the goal is not just to desensitize him to normal everyday objects but also just straight up teach him to behave differently when scared.
I'm like 99.999% sure that when he was a scared lil puppy his owners were like "Sweet baby! Don't be scared! *kisskisskissattentionsandtreats* Booboohoo! My baaaaby!". Which is part of that whole reacting with praise rather then reacting with security. It just makes him more easily scared. And then between that and being extreeeeemely sheltered (They worked all day most days and lived in an apartment with no other dogs so he was just locked up all day until they started leaving him with their uncles dog - who was also locked up all day, so he spent the whole of daytime in a room either alone or with another dog never going out) he's just really wildly under-socialized.

At the same time some of his behavior is improving. So we'll get through. But it's just VERY random when he'll be scared and of what.

We'll see how he does on his walk tonight. Evening walks have consistently been better than daytime ones.

 

[MROO]

I have a suggestion for the car. Put him on a leash. Take him to the car. Make him sit, give him a treat, and then take him away from the car. Repeat that a few times. Next day do the same thing but this time put him in the car. Sit and fuss with him a bit, give him a treat, and take him out of the car and walk him away. Maybe repeat this a couple times. Next day put him in the car and start it. Let the car run a few minutes but don't go anywhere. Fuss with him, give him a treat, and then leave the car. Next day maybe go around the block or equivalent. Keep gradually working up to more car time. He may never learn to love car rides but he can learn to tolerate them.

We did something like this with our rescue pup - a border collie/english setter mix (we think.) Her problem seemed to stem from playing "Pass the Puppy" all the way up I-95 from Southern Georgia to Central PA. Every time the car stopped, she was handed over to a new stranger in a new car ... and she was terrified to get in. By the time we got her, she had to be picked up to be placed in the car and would cower, trembling o the floor for the entire ride. We overcame it by taking her on short trips to interesting places (even if it was just to look out the window.) It took several weeks for her to realize that she always came home to the same place with the same people ... and she's been fine ever since.
The trash cans were a bit different. Our problem child was a very skittish young mare who was convinced that everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, ate horses! trash cans were a particular issue with her. We put one in her paddock and left it there until she stopped spooking at it. Then we moved it closer to the gate, where she had to walk past it to get to her dinner. After a week or two, we stored the sweet feed in it. Over the course of three months, she went from falling apart at the ere sight of a trash can to lipping the lids as we went by, trying to see if there was anything good in there. It wasn't the best scenario for passing trash cans on a trail ride, but it beat the heck out of walking home rubbing your butt after she threw you! Lesson translation ... can you put a clean trash can in your living room for a while?