lcwmt
Songster
alert LG> long, rambling dog experiences post <G>
Hermes is a lovely pup (Aussie? looks more like a Border Collie but that doesn't matter. He's a herding breed.) Yay for all of you. He sounds super smart, eager to learn and ready to bond, even if he missed a few early steps. You have a lot of experience with dogs and training. It sounds like you are meeting this pup on his own terms and finding ways to help him adjust to his forever home/people and to work through his fears. After reading this whole thread I'm not sure you are getting what you asked for from us. Certainly you don't need training tips <G>. Mainly it sounds to me like Hermes just needs time and calm exposure along with a predictable routine, all based in positive experiences. It sounds like you are doing exactly that.
We have two dogs right now; the older much loved dogs lived out their lives and we miss them! Between us, in our previous lives and now in our life together, we have had only 2 pups straight of their litters at the right age. Our dogs seem to come to us from unknown or negative backgrounds. There are varying degrees of challenge but all the dogs are worth it.
Our primary tools with our dogs are consistency, time and patience. We try to never scold. Our dogs must learn "leave it" and they do. As soon as they know their names, "sit", "come", "down' and "wait", they are taught "leave it". This serves them, and us, well. It also makes life with chickens and cats easier.
You understand time and patience but asked for specific stories.
I have only been able to take one of my dogs through a full obedience training course. He was a 1 y.o. rescue and had not been socialized, had separation issues and so forth. Initially he was afraid of being in houses, cars were awful, strange places made him quiver. It took slow gradual exposure and patience, lots of patience. As soon as I thought we had one scary thing conquered, another would surface.
He was terrified of dumpsters (what you refer to as trash cans?), ice machines (he traveled with me a lot and we stayed in hotels), eating when other dogs were near, and more, much more, Once he got comfortable with the car and new places and had learned to trust me, we went to training. He earned his AKC Canine Good Citizen and along the way I unlearned a lot of things and learned a lot about working with *my* dogs.
He became the dog who could go anywhere with me and be reliable.
I lived in a place with access to good training resources then. Because we are so far out of any good sized town now, training classes are not practical where I live. Still, with pups from uncertain backgrounds I would wait until some basic life skills and especially emotional/trust securities were in place before going to classes, but that's me.
We currently have a 5 y.o. Catahoula who was seriously abused before we adopted her at 4 months. She still has a lot of fears and anxieties from that very early time.
When she had been with us almost a year we made an appointment with a Behaviorist - it's a 75 mile trek so not lightly done. He assessed her and gave us a lot of helpful strategies.... but they were appropriate for *her* and your pup is from a different background. Z. missed out on a lot of early puppy mental development, having been taken out of her litter too early. It sounds like Hermes has to overcome a negative "first people home" experience.
Z. was terrified of male feet in general. For about a year Jeff intentionally used his slippered feet as massage instruments, coupled with hand petting, praise and just general calm. It took a long time of "coffee in the morning" and "slipper therapy" for her to learn she was not going to be kicked, ever.
She is reactive to strange things when in the car: this is best managed (for us) with her crated and the crate blanketed. That way all the weird scary things in her moving visual space are obscured; she is calm and enjoys being along for the ride. We have had to create a calm and consistent environment for her; change is difficult.
Space is important to her. The other dog(s) have to be out of the car before she can be released, otherwise she's protective of the area around the vehicle. A lot of things with Z are about management, she will not "get over it".
After all this time, she's still learning but is much more able to deal with her world. We live well out of town so the stresses of city/suburban life are not a factor for her. IMO Z could never live in an environment with constant noise, but then, neither could I anymore <LOL> As for the chickens, I started this flock when Z was 3. She had a solid,"leave it". She'd spend time sitting with me, watching the chicks in the brooder. They quickly became her chickens. She does not herd them but does get very concerned if she perceives any threat. She'll herd the cats away from the chickens, alert if there are ravens or hawks overhead and so on.
One of our border collies (a shelter adoption at age 1) was terrified of fly swatters, thunder, gun shots, fire works, etc. She had a long memory. At age 8 she was still showing us her early negative experiences. A thunder shirt was helpful for her until she began associating it with upcoming storms.
Finding a groomer who would work with her and with Z over time was not easy. The assembly line approach of many grooming places just does not work for anxious dogs.
Our newest pup came to us at 23 weeks after two foster homes since the age of 3 weeks. She is 4 months old now, still new in our lives. She is afraid of a lot of stuff, including strange dogs and strange people and large, unfamiliar objects... She gets anxious/fearful in unfamiliar environments.
We are taking a similar approach to yours with Hermes: maintain calm and patience, treat when her attention turns to us, turn around and walk her away if need be. The slow exposure is working, the FedEx guy was here Thursday, she was delighted to have her ears scratched.
I take her to visit the Vet's office once a week, to get accustomed to the parking lot, the staff, being weighed and greeted. In another week or two we'll go in and sit while other dogs come and go. She'll gets treats when she turns her attention away from whatever she reacts negatively to. Then I'll start taking her with me to the feed store and other dog friendly noisy places. (but oh! it has to cool off first! Right now it is too hot.) She's had to learn to focus what we ask of her rather than deciding whether or not to do as we ask <G>. Still, she's solid on her basics already and getting more reliable with "leave it" and with recall.
FWIW, I am very leery regarding taking any of my pups to "public" areas before they have had *all* their vaccinations. That is usually 5 months. This new girl came to us with all her shots, early. Our Vet does boosters for pups that were rushed through that process so K is just now at the place where exposure would not potentially lead to disease.
As for herding: a local sheep rancher told me that he does not screen or train his herding dogs... "put them with the herd, they know what to do." (of course, they also learn from the older dogs)
Over the years we have had mostly herding dogs (including this Catahoula); each breed has its own style. Aussies and BCs work in different ways. As a class, they are whip smart, eager to learn, need jobs to do and a lot of exercise, both mental and physical.
Hermes has found a home that will work for him, lucky dog! Meeting with a trainer or behaviorist, when/if it is right for you, will help you better understand how Hermes is wired so you can help him channel that appropriately in your living situation.
Hermes is a lovely pup (Aussie? looks more like a Border Collie but that doesn't matter. He's a herding breed.) Yay for all of you. He sounds super smart, eager to learn and ready to bond, even if he missed a few early steps. You have a lot of experience with dogs and training. It sounds like you are meeting this pup on his own terms and finding ways to help him adjust to his forever home/people and to work through his fears. After reading this whole thread I'm not sure you are getting what you asked for from us. Certainly you don't need training tips <G>. Mainly it sounds to me like Hermes just needs time and calm exposure along with a predictable routine, all based in positive experiences. It sounds like you are doing exactly that.
We have two dogs right now; the older much loved dogs lived out their lives and we miss them! Between us, in our previous lives and now in our life together, we have had only 2 pups straight of their litters at the right age. Our dogs seem to come to us from unknown or negative backgrounds. There are varying degrees of challenge but all the dogs are worth it.
Our primary tools with our dogs are consistency, time and patience. We try to never scold. Our dogs must learn "leave it" and they do. As soon as they know their names, "sit", "come", "down' and "wait", they are taught "leave it". This serves them, and us, well. It also makes life with chickens and cats easier.
You understand time and patience but asked for specific stories.
I have only been able to take one of my dogs through a full obedience training course. He was a 1 y.o. rescue and had not been socialized, had separation issues and so forth. Initially he was afraid of being in houses, cars were awful, strange places made him quiver. It took slow gradual exposure and patience, lots of patience. As soon as I thought we had one scary thing conquered, another would surface.
He was terrified of dumpsters (what you refer to as trash cans?), ice machines (he traveled with me a lot and we stayed in hotels), eating when other dogs were near, and more, much more, Once he got comfortable with the car and new places and had learned to trust me, we went to training. He earned his AKC Canine Good Citizen and along the way I unlearned a lot of things and learned a lot about working with *my* dogs.
He became the dog who could go anywhere with me and be reliable.
I lived in a place with access to good training resources then. Because we are so far out of any good sized town now, training classes are not practical where I live. Still, with pups from uncertain backgrounds I would wait until some basic life skills and especially emotional/trust securities were in place before going to classes, but that's me.
We currently have a 5 y.o. Catahoula who was seriously abused before we adopted her at 4 months. She still has a lot of fears and anxieties from that very early time.
When she had been with us almost a year we made an appointment with a Behaviorist - it's a 75 mile trek so not lightly done. He assessed her and gave us a lot of helpful strategies.... but they were appropriate for *her* and your pup is from a different background. Z. missed out on a lot of early puppy mental development, having been taken out of her litter too early. It sounds like Hermes has to overcome a negative "first people home" experience.
Z. was terrified of male feet in general. For about a year Jeff intentionally used his slippered feet as massage instruments, coupled with hand petting, praise and just general calm. It took a long time of "coffee in the morning" and "slipper therapy" for her to learn she was not going to be kicked, ever.
She is reactive to strange things when in the car: this is best managed (for us) with her crated and the crate blanketed. That way all the weird scary things in her moving visual space are obscured; she is calm and enjoys being along for the ride. We have had to create a calm and consistent environment for her; change is difficult.
Space is important to her. The other dog(s) have to be out of the car before she can be released, otherwise she's protective of the area around the vehicle. A lot of things with Z are about management, she will not "get over it".
After all this time, she's still learning but is much more able to deal with her world. We live well out of town so the stresses of city/suburban life are not a factor for her. IMO Z could never live in an environment with constant noise, but then, neither could I anymore <LOL> As for the chickens, I started this flock when Z was 3. She had a solid,"leave it". She'd spend time sitting with me, watching the chicks in the brooder. They quickly became her chickens. She does not herd them but does get very concerned if she perceives any threat. She'll herd the cats away from the chickens, alert if there are ravens or hawks overhead and so on.
One of our border collies (a shelter adoption at age 1) was terrified of fly swatters, thunder, gun shots, fire works, etc. She had a long memory. At age 8 she was still showing us her early negative experiences. A thunder shirt was helpful for her until she began associating it with upcoming storms.
Finding a groomer who would work with her and with Z over time was not easy. The assembly line approach of many grooming places just does not work for anxious dogs.
Our newest pup came to us at 23 weeks after two foster homes since the age of 3 weeks. She is 4 months old now, still new in our lives. She is afraid of a lot of stuff, including strange dogs and strange people and large, unfamiliar objects... She gets anxious/fearful in unfamiliar environments.
We are taking a similar approach to yours with Hermes: maintain calm and patience, treat when her attention turns to us, turn around and walk her away if need be. The slow exposure is working, the FedEx guy was here Thursday, she was delighted to have her ears scratched.
I take her to visit the Vet's office once a week, to get accustomed to the parking lot, the staff, being weighed and greeted. In another week or two we'll go in and sit while other dogs come and go. She'll gets treats when she turns her attention away from whatever she reacts negatively to. Then I'll start taking her with me to the feed store and other dog friendly noisy places. (but oh! it has to cool off first! Right now it is too hot.) She's had to learn to focus what we ask of her rather than deciding whether or not to do as we ask <G>. Still, she's solid on her basics already and getting more reliable with "leave it" and with recall.
FWIW, I am very leery regarding taking any of my pups to "public" areas before they have had *all* their vaccinations. That is usually 5 months. This new girl came to us with all her shots, early. Our Vet does boosters for pups that were rushed through that process so K is just now at the place where exposure would not potentially lead to disease.
As for herding: a local sheep rancher told me that he does not screen or train his herding dogs... "put them with the herd, they know what to do." (of course, they also learn from the older dogs)
Over the years we have had mostly herding dogs (including this Catahoula); each breed has its own style. Aussies and BCs work in different ways. As a class, they are whip smart, eager to learn, need jobs to do and a lot of exercise, both mental and physical.
Hermes has found a home that will work for him, lucky dog! Meeting with a trainer or behaviorist, when/if it is right for you, will help you better understand how Hermes is wired so you can help him channel that appropriately in your living situation.
You're right about training tips being mostly superfluous... But problem behaviors is where I'm lacking in my dog training. I can tell you how to take a dog from 7 weeks and turn it into a well adjusted nicely trained pupper... But not always how to tackle problem children like this, so novel ideas are part of what I'm reaching out for. That and encouragement.
