Spooky puppy problems

[Folly's place]

So she's not actually sound shy, or the thunder would be a big issue too. Just everything else bothers her.
Maybe just hasn't ever been exposed to many different sounds and objects; too isolated when younger. And sensitive, and a 'worry wort'.
Mary

 

[MROO]

So she's not actually sound shy, or the thunder would be a big issue too. Just everything else bothers her.
Maybe just hasn't ever been exposed to many different sounds and objects; too isolated when younger. And sensitive, and a 'worry wort'.
Mary

That sounds about right. My border collies have been the same way - too smart for their own good (like Aussies) so they overthink everything and worry about every little detail ... ADHD with high strung nerves. Once the young fellow settles down (and he's young, there's time) I'll bet he'll be one frighteningly intelligent, super-neat companion!

 

[Folly's place]

Sorry, it's a 'he', not a female!
Mar

 

[Folly's place]

My severe abuse case dog is not storm shy, while her buddy, an older 'steady eddie' type, is! Sound phobias don't appear to be connected to many other behaviors, they just appear, inconveniently, in some individuals.
Mary

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I notice your Hermes seems to have one ear floppier than the other, are they always like that? Reason I ask is my Sheltie has one upright and one floppy ear and I'm convinced she's a little hearing impaired because of it. Sound does not hit her ears evenly, so she reacts to sound .... oddly. She can't always tell where a noise is coming from so she barks like a crazy person (yeah, I know!) from one end of the house to the other trying to locate it. Traffic sounds on TV really set her off. Instead of reacting fearfully she almost comes across as aggressive although she isn't. I'm wondering if Hermes' hearing could be a factor in some of his fearfulness?

Also, I have a suggestion about the Big Scary Things. What if, instead of doing the sit and treat routine, you tried a more neutral approach? Say something scares him. You just stop and be still and quiet. Give him enough slack in the leash to let him decide what he wants to do. He may pull away; you stand still. Let him decide if he wants to look at it, sniff and check it out. He'll soon realize nothing happens to him, it's safe, not scary. When he relaxes, move on.

I did this in Seattle on Fisherman's Wharf with my Golden. There is an enormous brass (?) pig there, like five feet tall. My dog freaked when he first saw it. I gave him slack in the leash and just stood still. He trembled, crouched, streeeetched and finally sniffed under its tail, to the amusement of huge crowds watching. Then he relaxed, wagged his tail, realizing it was not real. But he had to discover that on his own, I couldn't help him. You could almost see him thinking, "Ha! Fooled me!"

 

[BigBlueHen53]

PS - I wonder if by doing the sit and treat routine, you may be inadvertently reinforcing the fearful behavior. Try treating him when he does NOT act fearful. Maybe.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Folly, that sounds about right to me. He's already insanely smart.
The bell training in particular has thrown me for a loop. We trained our husky to ring a bell and it took her 3-4 days to learn to ring the bell before going out, and then maybe a week to start ringing the bell consistently. Seems normal, maybe even pretty smart.

This dog... I sat him down to start teaching him the bell a few days ago. I had him drill touch on the bells for about 3 minutes. Touch the bells, touch elsewhere, touch the bells, touch somewhere else. He quickly got bored and so we did some other tricks and then went to play fetch instead. We've done touch like this before on other objects.

The next day we get up to go to the bathroom in the morning and this dog. ENTIRELY unprompted. I pick up his leash, and normally this is when he sits down politely to wait for it to be put on. He looks me dead in the eyes, pushes the bells and THEN sits. I didn't even ask him to ring the bell. I have not once since asked him to ring his bells to go out. NOT ONCE. He already does it every single time, he's ringing his bell when he needs to go to the bathroom, and he's already trying to ring his bell to go out just because he's bored. It took 2 weeks for my husky to reach that point and we're 4 days into bell training.

He's wildly smart. He's learned 5 tricks consistently over 9 days, plus his name and a bunch of new behaviors. My BIL who lives across the street with 3 dogs says we're gonna have to start adding latches to doors and cabinets.

BigBlue, we've tried that approach a few times. He's happy to lay down on the end of his leash and not get closer ever again. I wish that he would eventually 'relax and move on'... But if he's willing to it takes more than 20 minutes for it to happen. I can't spend 20+ minutes on every scary object - especially not when I need him to meet someone new safely. Additionally that sort of streeeeeetch behavior, he's just started to do that unprompted with the trashcans. and he'll keep it up several minutes on his own. Streeeeeeeetch, jump back, streeeeetch, jump back. His fear went WAY past that level before.
So I'm rewarding him for confronting his fears. But I am bearing the potential of rewarding fear in mind. The goal is always to get rid of the reward in the end.

 

[Folly's place]

If you reward a sit and CALM attitude, it's good. I hear CM slammed here, but his 'sit, calm' message is right on, and the same thing, without the cookie.
He's so smart he will find it very easy to manipulate everyone, so stay ahead of the curve here!
Mary

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Folly, that sounds about right to me. He's already insanely smart.
The bell training in particular has thrown me for a loop. We trained our husky to ring a bell and it took her 3-4 days to learn to ring the bell before going out, and then maybe a week to start ringing the bell consistently. Seems normal, maybe even pretty smart.

This dog... I sat him down to start teaching him the bell a few days ago. I had him drill touch on the bells for about 3 minutes. Touch the bells, touch elsewhere, touch the bells, touch somewhere else. He quickly got bored and so we did some other tricks and then went to play fetch instead. We've done touch like this before on other objects.

The next day we get up to go to the bathroom in the morning and this dog. ENTIRELY unprompted. I pick up his leash, and normally this is when he sits down politely to wait for it to be put on. He looks me dead in the eyes, pushes the bells and THEN sits. I didn't even ask him to ring the bell. I have not once since asked him to ring his bells to go out. NOT ONCE. He already does it every single time, he's ringing his bell when he needs to go to the bathroom, and he's already trying to ring his bell to go out just because he's bored. It took 2 weeks for my husky to reach that point and we're 4 days into bell training.

He's wildly smart. He's learned 5 tricks consistently over 9 days, plus his name and a bunch of new behaviors. My BIL who lives across the street with 3 dogs says we're gonna have to start adding latches to doors and cabinets.

BigBlue, we've tried that approach a few times. He's happy to lay down on the end of his leash and not get closer ever again. I wish that he would eventually 'relax and move on'... But if he's willing to it takes more than 20 minutes for it to happen. I can't spend 20+ minutes on every scary object - especially not when I need him to meet someone new safely. Additionally that sort of streeeeeetch behavior, he's just started to do that unprompted with the trashcans. and he'll keep it up several minutes on his own. Streeeeeeeetch, jump back, streeeeetch, jump back. His fear went WAY past that level before.
So I'm rewarding him for confronting his fears. But I am bearing the potential of rewarding fear in mind. The goal is always to get rid of the reward in the end.

Sigh. I've heard it said that BCs are not just smart, they are SCARY smart, and these examples bear that out, lol! It is a real challenge to stay a step ahead of a BC! Oh, sorry, you say Hermes is an Aussie. Well.... either way, he is obviously a brilliant little character. And he has *learned* to fear certain things, and getting him to *unlearn* that is going to be a real challenge! I have no other suggestions for you at this time but will definitely put the thinking cap on! He is in good hands with you, you have the perfect background and experience to help him!

 

[Sea Wolf]

Keep doing what you are doing. In moderation to start and work more exposure into your walks as he gets better. If your other dog is calm, take both dogs so he can see how the other dog reacts. Unfortunately, this dog was not socialized as a puppy despite what you were told. That has to be done at a early age for it to be really effective and for the pup to learn to accept new things as normal. The previous owners failed this pup when he needed it most. It will take some time but he will probably always be jittery. You will have to love him the way he is. Make sure you really train and practice recall. If he gets loose from you at this point, he is going to run in terror and not stop. He will not come to you. Practice this and train out on the street where things are happening. Not just in the peace and quiet of your own yard.