Swan Breeders in Michigan?

[bdfive]

Personally, I will always stick with mutes; they are harder to tame, by far, but here in NE Ohio our winters can be pretty brutal and the Australians are not made for that. Plus, ours do their nesting/hatching in the spring, whereas Australians are on the opposite "down under" schedule. I know a lady here who's bred for probably 40 years, and she has indoor, heated heated ponds in a barn for them in the winter. My mutes have been with me for 13 years and always stay out on their pond no matter what. They shun the shelter we provide for them, preferring to curl up in a ball on the ice. I will admit, when it's 5 degrees outside and they don't move for long periods of time, it's pretty nerve-wracking, even after all these years. But they are very large and obviously healthy so I follow the old "if it's not broke, don't fix it" philosophy!
NOTE: I do have a female mute (offspring of this pair) who will be 3 next spring. Never found her the right home, but really do need to sell her. I'm just very fussy about where my babies go!

Here in Texas Mutes may get overheated but know people have them. I have the 2 Black Australian as noted in prior posting. Have friend with Silver Australian male derived from the Black species. She just lost her female that was black but crossed with Silver so cygnets would have been partially Black. Paige has a White Mute female and has recently decided to purchase a male. Found an unsexed one and waiting for DNA results....she'll buy it if it's a male. I know what you mean about being picky about where your offspring go. I feel the same way about my birds. If I can't find someone to build a proper pond for mine soon I may try finding a new good home for Gracie and Gunther that are almost 4 years old. I'm retired and cleaning that 300 gallon trough every few days is becoming difficult. Talking to another pond builder but usually they prove to me through conversation they don't know what their doing. This person sounds promising. I'd love to return to just using the large plastic kiddie pools found easily that cost about $20 but was told they need more water to breed in. Not wanting more water so I can get cygnets but Gunther was rough on the female in the shallow water. Have been told they breed in water. Is that true?

 

[bdfive]

Forgot to say I get nervous when temps drop to 20 here in the Texas Hill Country so keep my Blacks in a swan house with straw and heat lamp to just take the chill off.

 

[josebeth1]

I would do the same with Australians if I had them regarding the protection from the cold.
I really doubt the mutes would overheat in TX......they are incredibly adaptable and as long as they have shade they should do well. Our summers are often in the 90's which would not be so bad if it wasn't 90% humidity to go along with that! We're very conscious of the heat as we have an alpaca farm and the heat is far more dangerous for them than the cold.
I remember way back when you were making that trough and getting ready for Gracie #1 and Gunner, btw! Have you looked into fish that could help keep it clean? I know some livestock folks do that for drinking water!
Yes, they do need more water to breed and if you've never seen the breeding "dance", to me it is beautiful and fascinating. Mine get lovey-dovey a lot, and it often seems to be just mutual affection as they don't always end by mating.
That said, I would beg you to reconsider the breeding part; there's really not a lot of market out there for swans any more and the laws in many states about having them are getting tougher and tougher. I do a lot of rescue, and I've also seen what happens when people get desperate and take them to auction. To say that it's sad is an understatement. And with most mutes, if your pond is not huge (and mine is not), there will come the day when parents want the offspring gone to their own pond and will not tolerate them staying on the original pond. We have this problem now with the young female, and have had to really work at fencing in part of the pond to protect her. Even so, they have twice gotten to her and both parents would have killed her if we hadn't seen and caught it in time. It literally makes me cry to addle the eggs each spring, but hatching them is truly not worth the headache even though I miss the baby time like crazy.
The young female I have was the last time I let eggs hatch, and that was only because I had a previous buyer asking for a couple more for one of her rental properties and I know her birds are so well taken care of. But I still ended up with this extra female, so now I'm sorry I did it!

 

[bdfive]

I would do the same with Australians if I had them regarding the protection from the cold.
I really doubt the mutes would overheat in TX......they are incredibly adaptable and as long as they have shade they should do well. Our summers are often in the 90's which would not be so bad if it wasn't 90% humidity to go along with that! We're very conscious of the heat as we have an alpaca farm and the heat is far more dangerous for them than the cold.
I remember way back when you were making that trough and getting ready for Gracie #1 and Gunner, btw! Have you looked into fish that could help keep it clean? I know some livestock folks do that for drinking water!
Yes, they do need more water to breed and if you've never seen the breeding "dance", to me it is beautiful and fascinating. Mine get lovey-dovey a lot, and it often seems to be just mutual affection as they don't always end by mating.
That said, I would beg you to reconsider the breeding part; there's really not a lot of market out there for swans any more and the laws in many states about having them are getting tougher and tougher. I do a lot of rescue, and I've also seen what happens when people get desperate and take them to auction. To say that it's sad is an understatement. And with most mutes, if your pond is not huge (and mine is not), there will come the day when parents want the offspring gone to their own pond and will not tolerate them staying on the original pond. We have this problem now with the young female, and have had to really work at fencing in part of the pond to protect her. Even so, they have twice gotten to her and both parents would have killed her if we hadn't seen and caught it in time. It literally makes me cry to addle the eggs each spring, but hatching them is truly not worth the headache even though I miss the baby time like crazy.
The young female I have was the last time I let eggs hatch, and that was only because I had a previous buyer asking for a couple more for one of her rental properties and I know her birds are so well taken care of. But I still ended up with this extra female, so now I'm sorry I did it!

I mentioned Gunther getting rough with Gracie in the shallow water....only reason I want larger pond/trough....and feel they're happier. I don't want the female hurt with him trying to breed her in so little depth. Don't care if they can produce cygnets for reason of very few proper homes for them. LOL, I say that but OH MY GOODNESS, the babies are a delight. I'll post a picture of those I hatched out for the ranch of which I kept my 2.
YES, have seen the ritual many times and it's a sight to behold.
Asked swan rescue person what to do if not wanting eggs to hatch and she mentioned technique but didn't know it was called addling. Just looked it up...didn't realize it's done after embryo has formed. Ugh, see why you say it makes you cry but probably better then a bad life they may have to endure.
Do you have an opinion of how often I should change the 300 gallon trough being used for Gracie and Gunther? It's not large enough to put large fish in. They would eat small ones. Also would have to catch the fish when I pump the water out to replace with clean. I do intend to get a few koi once have a larger pond built with adequate filtration.
So good chatting with you!

 

[bdfive]

View attachment 1169315 View attachment 1169317

I mentioned Gunther getting rough with Gracie in the shallow water....only reason I want larger pond/trough....and feel they're happier. I don't want the female hurt with him trying to breed her in so little depth. Don't care if they can produce cygnets for reason of very few proper homes for them. LOL, I say that but OH MY GOODNESS, the babies are a delight. I'll post a picture of those I hatched out for the ranch of which I kept my 2.
YES, have seen the ritual many times and it's a sight to behold.
Asked swan rescue person what to do if not wanting eggs to hatch and she mentioned technique but didn't know it was called addling. Just looked it up...didn't realize it's done after embryo has formed. Ugh, see why you say it makes you cry but probably better then a bad life they may have to endure.
Do you have an opinion of how often I should change the 300 gallon trough being used for Gracie and Gunther? It's not large enough to put large fish in. They would eat small ones. Also would have to catch the fish when I pump the water out to replace with clean. I do intend to get a few koi once have a larger pond built with adequate filtration.
So good chatting with you!

Wanted to add I really don't want cygnets...just wanted companion for Gunther and wasn't sure he'd accept a male in his habitat. To be honest not sure I could addle an egg that is growing. Couldn't it be done before growth starts?

 

[josebeth1]

We've addled eggs for 3 years now, and I've never waited for an embryo to form. That would be horrible! As soon as the clutch is laid and she starts sitting, we do it. Hubby holds Delilah and Samson back with an umbrella and quickly hands me an egg. You know the 3-4" pins used to tie up a turkey after it's stuffed and ready to go in the oven? We put a handle on one and sharpen it well and that's what I use to puncture the end of the egg (which is a lot harder to get through than you might imagine!) I mark each egg with an "X" as I go. The eggs are returned immediately to the nest and we get out of their as quickly as possible. Delilah sits on them like normal, usually giving up and abandoning around day 40. Sometimes they get rid of some of the eggs during that duration, but there's always at least one or two for us to dispose of at the end.
The babies are a delight and I absolutely love the amazing care given by the parents. We so totally love the process! But it's still not right to bring the life into the world if one can't be sure it will have a good life.
I do get some consolation, however, because we've had the same pair of Canada geese return for the last 4 years and their process is amazingly similar. Nobody's gonna be messing with those babies, either, LOL!

 

[bdfive]

I have peafowl and sell the chicks doing my utmost best to find good homes for them. My adults are pets and stay with me. My swans, adult peafowl & ornamental pheasants, 2 Mini Aussie dogs, 2 outside cats and husband all intend to stay together to the end. I will give chicks away before I sell them to a bad home. I have a list of people that have nice ponds and would love to have swans but don't necessarily want to pay the high prices they bring. They've bought peachicks from me that have grown and now free range on their properties, usually large parcels. I'm thinking of one couple now that has a huge manmade concrete pond with filtration in their back yard. They have a gorgeous ranch and raise buffalo. Problem with ponds/lakes in Texas is they tend to have snapping turtles that can get large enough to catch/eat waterfowl. I've never told these folks I may offer them come cygnets but the people I keep track of I have no doubt would do what is necessary to care for swans properly and can afford it. With that said comes the thought, "Why take the chance and bring the babies into the world at all"? Decisions, decisions???

I do have 1 question perhaps you can answer for me. I read and am told swans don't tolerate other swans in their ponds/lake/waterways. Why do I see for sale ads with pictures posted by swan breeders of dozens of swans all in the same lake/pond?

IMPORTANT: I have a friend that has a young Mute female. She recently found a Mute locally that was unsexed. Paige paid to have it sexed hoping it would be a female she could purchase as a companion for her female Mute. She does not want a male. Paige has a huge pond with proper filtration and safe premises. If you want a good home for your female I'm sure Paige would be interested in purchasing her. She breeds horses and Sebastopol geese so is familiar with shipping however cost of swan and shipping may be higher then what she would want to pay. Food for thought.

It is so nice chatting with you.

 

[josebeth1]

I have peafowl and sell the chicks doing my utmost best to find good homes for them. My adults are pets and stay with me. My swans, adult peafowl & ornamental pheasants, 2 Mini Aussie dogs, 2 outside cats and husband all intend to stay together to the end. I will give chicks away before I sell them to a bad home. I have a list of people that have nice ponds and would love to have swans but don't necessarily want to pay the high prices they bring. They've bought peachicks from me that have grown and now free range on their properties, usually large parcels. I'm thinking of one couple now that has a huge manmade concrete pond with filtration in their back yard. They have a gorgeous ranch and raise buffalo. Problem with ponds/lakes in Texas is they tend to have snapping turtles that can get large enough to catch/eat waterfowl. I've never told these folks I may offer them come cygnets but the people I keep track of I have no doubt would do what is necessary to care for swans properly and can afford it. With that said comes the thought, "Why take the chance and bring the babies into the world at all"? Decisions, decisions???

I do have 1 question perhaps you can answer for me. I read and am told swans don't tolerate other swans in their ponds/lake/waterways. Why do I see for sale ads with pictures posted by swan breeders of dozens of swans all in the same lake/pond?

IMPORTANT: I have a friend that has a young Mute female. She recently found a Mute locally that was unsexed. Paige paid to have it sexed hoping it would be a female she could purchase as a companion for her female Mute. She does not want a male. Paige has a huge pond with proper filtration and safe premises. If you want a good home for your female I'm sure Paige would be interested in purchasing her. She breeds horses and Sebastopol geese so is familiar with shipping however cost of swan and shipping may be higher then what she would want to pay. Food for thought.

It is so nice chatting with you.

bdfive: I am so sorry I didn't see this until today!! If BYC emailed me a notification, I sure missed it!! I would really like to chat further....am going to pm you from your profile page. I'm off this week, which makes it easier to have some time to chat as well (around the holiday, of course!)
I will say publicly, however, that I'm not sure how those places that breed/sell a lot of swans keep them all together on one pond. Sometimes I wonder if it's just at certain times of year or maybe just temporary to get the photos? Maybe it's related to the size of the pond? (mine is pretty small). I know that my adult pair would never tolerate others on their pond all year long. That said, there are times during the year when they are very tolerant of other birds in general (which include lots of mallards and Canada geese , not just the regular breeding pair previously mentioned) but then they get totally aggressive and crazy at other times. As we get into January, Samson starts his nest-building routine and at that point everybody better clear out if they know what's good for them! This last week, both Samson and Delilah have been acting particularly aggressive with the young female, trying like heck to get at her through the fence. Now, in November, not even close to any breeding/offspring time? I have no idea why!

 

[bdfive]

Looks like I dropped the ball with us staying in touch. I don't get on BYC much but trying to help friend find a female Black Australian swan so thought I'd check here and came across our correspondence. Hope all is well.

 

[007Sean]

Looks like I dropped the ball with us staying in touch. I don't get on BYC much but trying to help friend find a female Black Australian swan so thought I'd check here and came across our correspondence. Hope all is well.

Darlene, what are doing up at this hour? Can't sleep again, huh!