The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Jfvcso]

Here is a picture

 

[Blue Eager]

So I have the opportunity to grab a descent deal on some hatching eggs. Hen is totally black but the roo does have slight slight red in the waddle. Worth hatching and then culling or spend the $$ for pure

I tried it your way for 3-4 years & it was a lot of wasted time & money. I finally decided it was time to do a lot of leg work (or finger work) searching for a breeder whose breeding stock had all the characteristics I was looking for keeping in mind the "Ayam Cemani Standard of Perfection". I found the breeder I had hoped for & purchased a dozen chicks. The breeder tossed in an additional 10. Out of those, all but 7 were culled, & this is the first year I feel that I am in a good place with my own breeders. Point being; no matter how good or great a breeder claims he or she's breeders are you are still going to do your own culling until your breeding stock is where it should be.

Here is a sampling of my breeding stock, 4 pullets I kept, & a photo of the chicks these breeders are producing...

 

[Justin17]

So I have the opportunity to grab a descent deal on some hatching eggs. Hen is totally black but the roo does have slight slight red in the waddle. Worth hatching and then culling or spend the $$ for pure

I wouldn’t take the chance. I’d spend the $$. I made a pretty good investment in 15 from a breeder, hopefully coming in June. Your first ones are pretty much your foundation. You have a bad foundation it could set you back years for culling. IMO.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

If you can find good birds it is probably best... we are doing the egg thing for a variety of reasons, so we shall see how that turns out... the 5 chicks still look black as black but they are young... I know a lot can change as they mature. The one I assisted to hatch is bantam sized, same size as OEG bantam chicks that are about as old. In addition we are going to try and incubate Swedish Black again the first batch of eggs simply were too scrambled to develop. We would like to compare the two breeds. The little Ayam (which seems to be doing great it’s just small)... I am going to suggest it be used in a bantam cross breeding experiments assuming it matures just fine.

 

[Jfvcso]

I tried it your way for 3-4 years & it was a lot of wasted time & money. I finally decided it was time to do a lot of leg work (or finger work) searching for a breeder whose breeding stock had all the characteristics I was looking for keeping in mind the "Ayam Cemani Standard of Perfection". I found the breeder I had hoped for & purchased a dozen chicks. The breeder tossed in an additional 10. Out of those, all but 7 were culled, & this is the first year I feel that I am in a good place with my own breeders. Point being; no matter how good or great a breeder claims he or she's breeders are you are still going to do your own culling until your breeding stock is where it should be.

Here is a sampling of my breeding stock, 4 pullets I kept, & a photo of the chicks these breeders are producing...

I thought about this for a while and am stuck because I literally am interested in building the breed. Not for profit. So there are more of them and they are more easily obtainable.

 

[Jfvcso]

I wouldn’t take the chance. I’d spend the $$. I made a pretty good investment in 15 from a breeder, hopefully coming in June. Your first ones are pretty much your foundation. You have a bad foundation it could set you back years for culling. IMO.

I am struggling finding anything. And I really do not trust hatchery to send anything quality. Especially this year with the high demand of poultry.

 

[Justin17]

I am struggling finding anything. And I really do not trust hatchery to send anything quality. Especially this year with the high demand of poultry.

Unless you can obtain access to your birds genome, breeding is not about certainty but probability. You just want to give yourself the highest probability of success you can.

I’m going to try out Valley View Cemanis. I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

[Blue Eager]

As mentioned earlier I have been breeding Cemanis going on 5 years now & have spent a lot of time, effort, & money with this breed. The offspring my breeders are producing are exactly what I have been hoping for; excellent quality & VERY LOW CULL %. I have sold a lot of chicks & customers are coming from all over my state (NM) to purchase these birds. All my customers so far have been very pleased to say the least. I have also had several requests from out-of-state breeders wanting to purchase these Cemanis or fertile eggs. Unfortunately I am not shipping at this time. All sales are local pick up only. If anyone is interested you can find my ad in the NM Craigslist.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Blue Egger since you have been doing this for a bit I gots questions. Just asking as it may help some of us working with what we can get.

How do you prioritize your breeding selections?

Do you have a preference on breeding strategie?

I figure you cull all birds with obvious defects no one wants in any breed and note parent birds. But past that what is a make or break sort of thing with you?

 

[Blue Eager]

Blue Egger since you have been doing this for a bit I gots questions. Just asking as it may help some of us working with what we can get.

How do you prioritize your breeding selections?

Do you have a preference on breeding strategie?

I figure you cull all birds with obvious defects no one wants in any breed and note parent birds. But past that what is a make or break sort of thing with you?

Breeding poultry is no different than that of any other animal whether it is a dog, cat, cattle, horses etc. For me the most important advice I can give is bypass all the less than desirable online information that simply makes you feel better about your own flock because others feel the same way & look at your flock without bias. Once you overcome this, key on information from experts who are critical of the breed. For me it is the Ayam Cemani Breeders Association’s “Standard of Perfection”. Only then will you notice improvements in your breeding stock.

https://ayamcemani.us/standard-of-perfection/

How? I think a previous member summed it up…by beginning with a good foundation. Something that always makes me chuckle is that famous Cemani Roo on the web from GFF. You know the one…all dressed up in jewels? Look close the next time you view that photo. That Roo is full of mulberry in his wattles, for that matter probably in his comb as well.

I dealt with those same issues for 3 years, almost 4. Thinking I could continue to purchase from the same breeder thinking one day a couple of good ones would magically appear. Don’t full yourself it isn’t going to happen. The fact of the matter is it only gets worse. Why…in-breeding.

Make sure you get plenty of photos from a prospective breeder, close-up photos of the face, underneath the wings, feet, & inside the mouth (grey inside the mouth ok). Look for any signs of off colors; mulberry & pink or off colors in the feathers. If for some reason the breeder hesitates to send specific photos, move on to the next, etc.

Another important factor is recognizing once you’ve established your breeding stock you mustn’t led up. You are still going to need to be critical of the offspring. Continue to monitor for the same less desirable traits mentioned above because although they will occur in much less frequency, they will happen. Cull those from your flock immediately. Just as important; do not forget to mix up your breeding stock over time or you'll be right back where you started.

I am in no way saying this is the correct way to go about it although it is what has worked for me. Good luck & don’t expect success to happen overnight…it takes time.