The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Steadfast]

"The American Cemani Breeders Club"



This Thread is in response to PMed requests to open up my "member article" to everyone...

This Thread is dedicated to open knowledge for people living in America who wish to breed these birds for BOTH fun and profit!

This group hopefully will be filled up with only fun positive people...
mean people need not apply...

As in all my passed writings here in BYC, There WILL be lots of chronological pictures posted here,
as myself, blackbirds13, and many new American breeders of these fantastic birds:
1. set up their farms
2. receive their breeding stock
3. raise them to breeding age
4. candle and incubate their 1st eggs
and
5. bring their "babies" to market

Join members like Blackbirds13 and myself on our live Journey of fun and profit...

Experienced breeders like wolfwhyte are invited to write articles of advice and to post farm pictures here as well...

Wooohoooo!

 

[Ravynscroft]

Got some good pics of my keeper boy this year...

 

[cjwaldon]

Knock it off guys! My pair of PURE Ayam Cemani obtained directly from Toni-Marie Astin has produced just about everything under the sun. Yes, feather color leakage, yes, a few pink combs, yes, some green legs, and yes, even a few with feathered legs. So stop jumping to conclusions that you're oh so knowledgeable about what's pure and what's not until you've been breeding a couple years and have hundreds of chicks under your belt to know without a doubt that you know what you're talking about and not just blowing steam out your rear, and while there is some fraud going on, not everybody selling is a scammer. It's ticking me off that so many people are spending so much time dissing everyone else, trying to destroy the reputation of everyone else. It's going on both here on BYC and on FB. If you don't like what's being offered, then don't buy them. If you have proof of fraud by all means share. But please stop making accusations without evidence. I would like to be able to share my breeding experiences, successes and failure, but to do so in this current warlike atmosphere would be committing internet suicide. Can we all please get back on topic of improving the breed? And before you go dumping on me and my birds, remember that my original pair came directly form TM, and if you accuse me of having mixed breed or being dishonest, then you are accusing her. And FWIW, culling hard does make a difference. My F2s are nearly as good as my GFF line now. F3s I can focus more on size and conformation.

 

[Pyxis]

Some pictures I got of my breeding rooster today:

 

[pitbullmomma]

This is my little roo, I think he's quite handsome!

 

[Ravynscroft]

I would like to address a growing trend that I fear may cause breeders more issues in the long run than help...

I can't help but notice the frequency that new breeders starting out emphasize how many different lines they have gathered... genetic diversity seems to be the driving force behind this trend... honestly, I am not convinced that is the best way to start out...

Research your sources first, the breed, the breeder, the quality of their birds, their reputation, their honesty policy and where their stock came from... there are known "lines" that have been proven false in the past... there are also a lot of rumors going around about new imported stock... personally, I have done quite a bit of digging and researching myself and have satisfied my own piece of mind about those rumors... I will not publicly call out or trash anyone's stock, but if others are interested I can pass on proof of much of my findings... just message me privately...

Anyways, back to the multiple lines issue... if you sourced from a good breeder, your starting batch should be just fine to start with... any decent breeder will have already started with a breeding program that would give them the most diversity possible while still keeping their lines clean... look into line breeding, spiral breeding and other carefully selected breeding programs... google Robert Blosl, he has unfortunately passed away, but he left a wealth of resources and information helping others with Heritage breeds that can be aptly applied to any breed and quality breeding program...

Raise your first batch, cull down to the best... hatch from those and grow out their offspring, see what they produce... become familiar with what your first line produces, the good and the faults... breed up until quality improves by a good percentage... do this BEFORE introducing a second line... crossing lines, even from breeders who sourced their stock from the same exact place, almost guarantees you new faults... better to know what can be expected from one line before crossing so new faults can be identified as new and not a recessive trait that could have been hidden in the first line...

Also, make sure you mark your separate lines... you will always want to know who came from what and who, this helps to duplicate a success and to avoid duplicating fails... this is essential to make progress...

I am currently on my 3rd generation and I have yet to add a second line... I do plan to do that soon, but they will be marked separately (I prefer toe punching and zip ties for adults), grown out and bred separately first... then a crossing will be tried and those will be marked as a crossing and grown out to see results... and so on and so forth... this takes a lot of time, resources and commitment... it is definitely not for everyone... if this doesn't sound appealing, or you do not love the breed for themselves, then maybe another breed will be more to your liking... if this does sound plausible to you, then welcome to a challenging and wonderful breed... I wish you all the best and success at your endeavors...

 

[blackbirds13]

This thread is awful. Why not let others sell their birds as they wish? "Buyer beware" is a phrase I hear a lot with chickens. There are a lot of suppositions and accusations that are rather salacious and uncomfortable to read. it has been a long winter but maybe the conversation could return to the breed in question. With so many of us interested in this breed it would be great to read a more informative and content filled discussion....maybe with pictures.. just my opinion as I'm interested in what is going on with the bird And try to let folks run their breeding program as they feel fits them best. Back to my coffee and lurking.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Thanks for the feedback! I was disheartened when i saw white toes. I wanted to breed them...but i don't want to be one of those irrisponsible breeders. Quess I'll have some pricey yard ornaments!

You can still breed them... we have to start somewhere and no line of ANY breed will throw all perfect offspring every hatch... it always takes a while to establish your own breeding line and program... any breeder will tell you if you want quality and a solid reputation for that quality and honesty, grow them out... select the best... hatch as much as possible from those, grow them out and select the best again... and repeat... as long as each generation improves you are moving in the right direction... and as you see each generation, you will become familiar with what your line will produce and can give accurate assessments of what can be expected and price accordingly...

 

[pitbullmomma]

X2!

My cull pullets go right into my layer flock. The boys usually get rehomed to people who want yard candy with firm instructions not to breed them. If I don't trust that someone wouldn't breed them, then I call them mixes.

That's awesome, you guys. I just assumed that culling meant killing, based on what I've read so far. That makes me feel a whole lot better. You guys both have some amazing looking birds....hats off to you!

Cindi

 

[boykin2010]

Hi, I don't raise Ayam Cemani's but I have their closely related and very rare cousin the Svart Hona (Swedish Black Hen.)
There is not much of a difference between the two breeds except for sometimes size depending upon bloodline.

I imported my birds legally from the UK.

Here is a picture of one of my roosters. I've been breeding them since 2012