The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Ravynscroft]

Do not consider this as a slam in any form, but we are basically a ranch family and our first rule is "never fall in love with our animals." We will put in the time and effort to breed and raise the best possible. If, after that money cant be made then they will be sold. Not gonna try to get rich off one group of animals, just make a profit.

Like both Phage and Pyxis said, it is unlikely to even profit from this breed... and no, I m not talking down on your efforts, but if you're looking for profit you are best off with layer or meat breeds...

Expectations of this breeds offspring are extremely high from any potential customer, and these are much tougher to breed to those expectations than any other breed I have ever raised...

 

[james walker]

I fully understand you doubts and concerns. No culls will ever be sold. They will probably end up as food for some of the other animals. She has several exotics that eat meat and a chicken will feed several pens. Im sure that there will be pretty of chicks/chickens that dont make the grade and were talking of only 5 to 10 good breeders as an end goal. We have over 50 eggers and a small pen of sebrights, some japanese bantams and some silkies. Its going to be interesting to see what we.can do with cemanis.

 

[Ravynscroft]

I would like to address a growing trend that I fear may cause breeders more issues in the long run than help...

I can't help but notice the frequency that new breeders starting out emphasize how many different lines they have gathered... genetic diversity seems to be the driving force behind this trend... honestly, I am not convinced that is the best way to start out...

Research your sources first, the breed, the breeder, the quality of their birds, their reputation, their honesty policy and where their stock came from... there are known "lines" that have been proven false in the past... there are also a lot of rumors going around about new imported stock... personally, I have done quite a bit of digging and researching myself and have satisfied my own piece of mind about those rumors... I will not publicly call out or trash anyone's stock, but if others are interested I can pass on proof of much of my findings... just message me privately...

Anyways, back to the multiple lines issue... if you sourced from a good breeder, your starting batch should be just fine to start with... any decent breeder will have already started with a breeding program that would give them the most diversity possible while still keeping their lines clean... look into line breeding, spiral breeding and other carefully selected breeding programs... google Robert Blosl, he has unfortunately passed away, but he left a wealth of resources and information helping others with Heritage breeds that can be aptly applied to any breed and quality breeding program...

Raise your first batch, cull down to the best... hatch from those and grow out their offspring, see what they produce... become familiar with what your first line produces, the good and the faults... breed up until quality improves by a good percentage... do this BEFORE introducing a second line... crossing lines, even from breeders who sourced their stock from the same exact place, almost guarantees you new faults... better to know what can be expected from one line before crossing so new faults can be identified as new and not a recessive trait that could have been hidden in the first line...

Also, make sure you mark your separate lines... you will always want to know who came from what and who, this helps to duplicate a success and to avoid duplicating fails... this is essential to make progress...

I am currently on my 3rd generation and I have yet to add a second line... I do plan to do that soon, but they will be marked separately (I prefer toe punching and zip ties for adults), grown out and bred separately first... then a crossing will be tried and those will be marked as a crossing and grown out to see results... and so on and so forth... this takes a lot of time, resources and commitment... it is definitely not for everyone... if this doesn't sound appealing, or you do not love the breed for themselves, then maybe another breed will be more to your liking... if this does sound plausible to you, then welcome to a challenging and wonderful breed... I wish you all the best and success at your endeavors...

 

[james walker]

I would like to address a growing trend that I fear may cause breeders more issues in the long run than help...

I can't help but notice the frequency that new breeders starting out emphasize how many different lines they have gathered... genetic diversity seems to be the driving force behind this trend... honestly, I am not convinced that is the best way to start out...

Research your sources first, the breed, the breeder, the quality of their birds, their reputation, their honesty policy and where their stock came from... there are known "lines" that have been proven false in the past... there are also a lot of rumors going around about new imported stock... personally, I have done quite a bit of digging and researching myself and have satisfied my own piece of mind about those rumors... I will not publicly call out or trash anyone's stock, but if others are interested I can pass on proof of much of my findings... just message me privately...

Anyways, back to the multiple lines issue... if you sourced from a good breeder, your starting batch should be just fine to start with... any decent breeder will have already started with a breeding program that would give them the most diversity possible while still keeping their lines clean... look into line breeding, spiral breeding and other carefully selected breeding programs... google Robert Blosl, he has unfortunately passed away, but he left a wealth of resources and information helping others with Heritage breeds that can be aptly applied to any breed and quality breeding program...

Raise your first batch, cull down to the best... hatch from those and grow out their offspring, see what they produce... become familiar with what your first line produces, the good and the faults... breed up until quality improves by a good percentage... do this BEFORE introducing a second line... crossing lines, even from breeders who sourced their stock from the same exact place, almost guarantees you new faults... better to know what can be expected from one line before crossing so new faults can be identified as new and not a recessive trait that could have been hidden in the first line...

Also, make sure you mark your separate lines... you will always want to know who came from what and who, this helps to duplicate a success and to avoid duplicating fails... this is essential to make progress...

I am currently on my 3rd generation and I have yet to add a second line... I do plan to do that soon, but they will be marked separately (I prefer toe punching and zip ties for adults), grown out and bred separately first... then a crossing will be tried and those will be marked as a crossing and grown out to see results... and so on and so forth... this takes a lot of time, resources and commitment... it is definitely not for everyone... if this doesn't sound appealing, or you do not love the breed for themselves, then maybe another breed will be more to your liking... if this does sound plausible to you, then welcome to a challenging and wonderful breed... I wish you all the best and success at your endeavors...

I like the idea of developing each line before combining any of them. We have 2 trios of one line to work with until any chicks mature. That is if any eggs I bought hatch. Thanks for all the info.

 

[james walker]

That didnt come out like I wanted. We will not throw the lines together when the chicks mature. We will.work to develope and improve each line for asmany generations as it takes to get whete we want to be. If, then, we see possible advantages to cross them up we will give it a try.

 

[Pyxis]

Some pictures I got of my breeding rooster today:

 

[Ravynscroft]

I like him...

 

[Pyxis]

I like him...

Thanks! I'm still glad I got him back, lol. He was a butt today, though. Started fence fighting with both Leo and a guinea cock.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Thanks! I'm still glad I got him back, lol. He was a butt today, though. Started fence fighting with both Leo and a guinea cock.

Of course! Brat, lol... at least he didn't bolt on you...

 

[abraga]

hey everyone! I'm in virginia...still looking to sell off some of my cemanis. I have to many roosters...but I will part with a hen or two if someone wants a pair. These are all youngsters..16wks and 4wks. GFF lines. No shipping...i've not had luck with the USPS shipping birds this year.