The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Randy2010]

Is there a formal cemani breeders club?

It is going to be important for people who care about perfecting these amazing birds to have formal group of known people who are working to an SOP, a bit like what is happening with the cream legbars club. People need to know who can be trusted to buy the real deal from in each breed.

I fear that for every one here that will be breeding and culling to improve their stock there will be 10 others who will buy a pair of birds and sell every egg and chick and even mixed breed they have to make a fast buck while the prices are high, and discard them when profits are low, moving onto the latest craze. I am not blaming people for wanting to make a living, and I guess it is not hard to spot who they are (they have multiple currently desirable breeds) but if you want to protect the good that you are doing (and what it will cost you) with the cemani breed I think it requires a formal club/group.

Phage,
You are so right on this----------I fear that for every one here that will be breeding and culling to improve their stock there will be 10 others who will buy a pair of birds and sell every egg and chick and even mixed breed they have to make a fast buck while the prices are high, and discard them when profits are low, moving onto the latest craze. I am not blaming people for wanting to make a living, and I guess it is not hard to spot who they are (they have multiple currently desirable breeds) but if you want to protect the good that you are doing (and what it will cost you) with the cemani breed I think it requires a formal club/group.

Some lines do need work, but like you said, there will be some that will sell every chick and egg to make that fast buck besides trying to improve what they are and making sure what they have are worth selling and passing on to others. But thankfully there will those of us that will be doing what it takes to improve and breed only the best.

I have said it before, people really need to do their homework on the breeders they are going to buy from and ask plenty of questions, also ask to see pictures of the sellers breeding stock. And again, you get what you pay for, so if people are smart they will save up their money or whatever it takes and make sure they are buying from the best breeders that they can afford to buy from, because in the end, they will not regret it.

 

[blackbirds13]

The super glued egg hatched. The chick looks very wobbly so we'll see if it makes it, but that would make 3.

I did my first ever egg-topsy and only one of the remaining 3 went to full term from what I could see. One probably died within days of the hatch as it seemed mostly formed just not the right size and the other needed a few more areas to grow out so I'm guessing they died prior to lock down. So out of the 6 I put in lock down I probably got 3 of 4 of what was viable when they went in.

 

[DCchicken]

Is there a formal cemani breeders club?

It is going to be important for people who care about perfecting these amazing birds to have formal group of known people who are working to an SOP, a bit like what is happening with the cream legbars club. People need to know who can be trusted to buy the real deal from in each breed.

I fear that for every one here that will be breeding and culling to improve their stock there will be 10 others who will buy a pair of birds and sell every egg and chick and even mixed breed they have to make a fast buck while the prices are high, and discard them when profits are low, moving onto the latest craze. I am not blaming people for wanting to make a living, and I guess it is not hard to spot who they are (they have multiple currently desirable breeds) but if you want to protect the good that you are doing (and what it will cost you) with the cemani breed I think it requires a formal club/group.

There is a collection of breeders with Toni-Marie Astin line that chat online. But it is not an official club similar to the Cream Legbars Club or the Sulmtalers Club with boards and officers. I think most of the breeders don't have that kind of time. Most of us would rather just spend the time and energy on improving our lines. You have to raise a lot of chicks with this breed and cull heavily.

Don't worry about the people that are in it just to make some fast cash. It will soon be obvious which breeders put in the time to improve their lines.

 

[AVHalls]

The super glued egg hatched. The chick looks very wobbly so we'll see if it makes it, but that would make 3.

I did my first ever egg-topsy and only one of the remaining 3 went to full term from what I could see. One probably died within days of the hatch as it seemed mostly formed just not the right size and the other needed a few more areas to grow out so I'm guessing they died prior to lock down. So out of the 6 I put in lock down I probably got 3 of 4 of what was viable when they went in.

Yay!!! Hope it makes it

 

[Phage]

My new guy! So handsome

He is fabulous!!

 

[blackbirds13]

Quote:
X 2! He is beautiful. I love how the Greenfire Cemani look but they do not really fit the Indonesian standard for type in my eye. They lack the upright gamey look but they do look like a Black Diamond alright (what say you Randy2010? LOL

)

I want one to.

....

 

[Randy2010]

X 2! He is beautiful. I love how the Greenfire Cemani look but they do not really fit the Indonesian standard for type in my eye. They lack the upright gamey look but they do look like a Black Diamond alright (what say you Randy2010? LOL

)

I want one to.

....

LOL yes they do.

 

[Chickengirl1304]

X 2! He is beautiful. I love how the Greenfire Cemani look but they do not really fit the Indonesian standard for type in my eye. They lack the upright gamey look but they do look like a Black Diamond alright (what say you Randy2010? LOL )

 I want one to.  ....

I agree, they look VERY different from my Toni Marie line. Putting the two together should be great though.

 

[Phage]

There is a collection of breeders with Toni-Marie Astin line that chat online.  But it is not an official club similar to the Cream Legbars Club or the Sulmtalers Club with boards and officers.  I think most of the breeders don't have that kind of time.  Most of us would rather just spend the time and energy on improving our lines.  You have to raise a lot of chicks with this breed and cull heavily.

If there is no American SOP for breeders to work towards what does "improving" mean?

People are mixing the very different looks and gene pools from the available cemani stock, and will produce the blackest birds possible, but what about type?
Some like the TM or GGF look, many will mix them (awesome IMO) but to what goal other than blackness?

If it is just blackness it would be logical to just use the blackest line currently available.

Without an SOP it will be hard for people to identify who are the breeders intent on improving the birds other that by making them black.

If it is decided that blackness is the only essential feature, what happens when someone presents a feather footed (for example) "American Cemani" or Breeds them with other FM birds they have?

Is it still a cemani if it is jet black?

Just thinking about how to "protect" the breed.

I know producing an SOP takes work but it also gives goals. And protects true breeders.

 

[Chickengirl1304]

If there is no American SOP for breeders to work towards what does "improving" mean?

People are mixing the very different looks and gene pools from the available cemani stock, and will produce the blackest birds possible, but what about type?
Some like the TM or GGF look, many will mix them (awesome IMO) but to what goal other than blackness?

If it is just blackness it would be logical to just use the blackest line currently available.

Without an SOP it will be hard for people to identify who are the breeders intent on improving the birds other that by making them black.

If it is decided that blackness is the only essential feature, what happens when someone presents a feather footed (for example) "American Cemani" or Breeds them with other FM birds they have?

Is it still a cemani if it is jet black?

Just thinking about how to "protect" the breed.

I know producing an SOP takes work but it also gives goals. And protects true breeders.

I agree. I don't think other fibro birds should be bred into the cemani and I don't think they should be considered cemani if so. I believe only using the pure lines available to us would produce a pure cemani. As far as type, I guess once we get the jet black under control we can work on type. I'm not really sure who can say at this point what the type should be or what it should look like.