The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[SunnySky]

It depends on which line or lines you have, some lines will have more culls than others. One of my lines I culled around 90 to 95% last year, but I probably culled heavier than most people probably would have. But so far this year, I'm not having to cull as hard at hatch as I was this time last year.

Mine are directly from Old Orchard Farm. I was extremely happy with my hatch rate (7 out of 8). Greg and Lauren are fabulous. Just not sure about how good of a cull rate I had lol.

 

[Hatchery Hive]

Hello Folks...

It is Great to join you!
I cant Wait to Share Photos of my Cemanis...

I am a friend of Randi who is also trying to develope My own Line using a mix of Several Cemani Lines. My Cemani product is not consistant enough yet for me to risk them on the market. Gotta keep my good name good.

But next year... yes...

I am only into my 2nd generation and have much work to do.
I have kept 20 birds, out of 200 winter hatchlings, the others I have culled.
I am in negotiations to trade birds from 2 more lines from other breeders.
This hopefully will round out and establish my own Pure Cemani line
and give me the confidence to go to market with excellent show birds.

Randy leads the way in this culling technique to build cleaner lines.
it is painful, but it works well. and he is a good man to learn from too.

I am well on my way.. and i cant wait to see what my 3rd generation produces...

and yes, I keep bees also,
and after the 1st honey flow of 2015, I will also be selling High quality Honey Bee products and pure Honey as well.

 

[MisfitMarie]

Hello,

I first want to apologize for the intrusion and if anything I say is against forum etiquette. I will try to make this short, and I only wish to warn you all about a seller on BYC selling "Ayam Cemani" hatching eggs. I wont give his BYC user out because it might be against the rules.But I will give you his Ebay seller name: exoticbirdimports and discourage any of you from purchasing his hatching eggs unless you know what you are getting: a white-chested, white-footed hybrid with white feet as well.

After three different orders, and hundreds of dollars, I have been left with chicks that fit the above description... despite failed claims opened via Ebay. On the third purchase, before any of the first round of eggs had hatched, I complied with his request to send money through PayPal as "to friends or family" to avoid Ebay fees. Unfortunately, this also left me unprotected and was a foolish move. Learn from my mistake.

Here is what the eggs (one of three orders, at least) looked like:



I have messages between the seller and I from when I first contacted them upon receiving the eggs. I was worried about the large size and dark color, and inconsistencies in overall shape and appearance. I was reassured that they were "purebred Greenfire line Ayam Cemani"...

I also have screenshots of the original listings which I can provide upon request via private messaging. I wont post them here. I did notice that this specific seller has completely reworded their new ad and has had no further listings on Ebay... too little too late, in my opinion.


There are so many established members of BYC with beautiful birds. And from now on, if I can't find my favorite breeds locally, I will be purchasing my hatching eggs here on BYC.

With that said, I'm subscribing to this thread and will get back to looking at all of your amazing Cemani pictures. I just felt it was the right thing to do to share my experience and prevent any trouble for anyone else.

And it has been EVERYTHING I can do to keep my hands off the incubator since putting my new Cemani eggs in.

Thanks for listening! Happy Tuesday!

 

[SunnySky]

Who here sells AC hatching eggs, anyone?

 

[lishanicole81]

I ordered from him on eBay, none hatched. When I opened the eggs well past hatch date, one had developed. It had pink toes, white toenails, and a pink tongue. I am guessing it was not gff lines as stated.

 

[MisfitMarie]

I ordered from him on eBay, none hatched. When I opened the eggs well past hatch date, one had developed. It had pink toes, white toenails, and a pink tongue. I am guessing it was not gff lines as stated.

My first round never hatched, either (stopped at day 18)... which was strange. Because I incubated and hatched them along with a dozen shipped assorted eggs from a different seller across the country. And 10/12 of those did great. The second round of "Ayam Cemani" from this seller was also extremely TOUGH (most died day 18)... but slightly more successful. And again, that round hatched alongside another shipped clutch of assorted breeds that I received a 8/10 hatch rate with.

 

[Hatchery Hive]

Randy may still sell hatching eggs...
but I am not sure...
From what I remember he is leaning towards live birds only.
But if I where you, I would want that from the horse's mouth.
I would pm him.

Also Randy's hatching eggs probably have a much better BLACK% than most...
but in general:

There is a real danger selling eggs to people who do not understand that 70-90%
will not be black and must be culled.

Customers want AND EXPECT every Cemani chick, from every egg, to be perfect black, all the time.
and that is just genetically impossible...

Folks also expect every egg to be viable even after the mailman slaps the package around for days.
This is also not possible.

On top of that, folks also think they all experts at hatching, and that they will always hatch every egg in their incubators.
Inexperienced folks don’t understand that the best of hatch rates for an expert is around 85-90% and that is after you hand carry the eggs from the coop to your incubator... Also, remember, that 85-90% drops fast and hard for those who are hatching for the first time.

This is why I have never and may never sell Cemani Hatching Eggs.
Unless:
My customers understand and except the cull rates,
My customers actually pick them up at my farm,
and my customers know what they are doing with their incubators.

Cemani "Hatching Egg" sales is way too much of a hassle!
with far too many chances of upsetting your customers.

I refuse to endanger my business with those kind of "disgruntled customer" odds.

However, the survival rate of 5 week olds in the mail is around 98%
and you can see and verify the quality of your birds before you sell and mail them.
Now, This is a different story entirely...

 

[MisfitMarie]

I agree and think you have made some excellent points.

But still exists the possibility of sellers/breeders taking advantage and selling eggs as something that they are truly not.

You do not seem like one of these types, which is awesome.

And great point about live birds, I should consider it. I guess there's just something thrilling about raising something from an egg to me.

Granted, I never wanted a "perfect" bird. In my case, through message exchange, I was convinced with terms like "purebred Greenfire Ayam Cemani" and "jet black chicks" or the "slim" chance of there being any defects... And it's not like I plan on breeding them. I don't care about a couple white toes or a reddish comb. But I wasn't expecting something that looked like my Black Copper Maran chicks to pop out. =)

OR be given the "guarantee" that I could get replacement eggs at a discounted price should I have any issues with my hatch, which also later proved to be untrue.

The hatch is totally on me. Some might hatch, none might hatch. All might hatch? I found it ironic, in my own experience, that each time these eggs were incubated, they were incubated amongst other eggs... same incubator, same dates, etc. That is an observation, and a worrying one. Who knows, maybe I sneezed on them without realizing... or maybe my cat did it.

But I do think honest breeders should be protected. I can see how all of your excellent points would be concerning to me, as a breeder, if I took it seriously.

But THAT is the difference. At least you can give a well-explained disclaimer... you're clearly not trying to deceive anyone.

Randy may still sell hatching eggs...
but I am not sure...
From what I remember he is leaning towards live birds only.
But if I where you, I would want that from the horse's mouth.
I would pm him.

Also Randy's hatching eggs probably have a much better BLACK% than most...
but in general:

There is a real danger selling eggs to people who do not understand that 70-90%
will not be black and must be culled.

Customers want AND EXPECT every Cemani chick, from every egg, to be perfect black, all the time.
and that is just genetically impossible...

Folks also expect every egg to be viable even after the mailman slaps the package around for days.
This is also not possible.

On top of that, folks also think they all experts at hatching, and that they will always hatch every egg in their incubators.
Inexperienced folks don’t understand that the best of hatch rates for an expert is around 85-90% and that is after you hand carry the eggs from the coop to your incubator... Also, remember, that 85-90% drops fast and hard for those who are hatching for the first time.

This is why I have never and may never sell Cemani Hatching Eggs.
Unless:
My customers understand and except the cull rates,
My customers actually pick them up at my farm,
and my customers know what they are doing with their incubators.

Cemani "Hatching Egg" sales is way too much of a hassle!
with far too many chances of upsetting your customers.

I refuse to endanger my business with those kind of "disgruntled customer" odds.

However, the survival rate of 5 week olds in the mail is around 98%
and you can see and verify the quality of your birds before you sell and mail them.
Now, This is a different story entirely...

 

[Randy2010]

Hello, I first want to apologize for the intrusion and if anything I say is against forum etiquette. I will try to make this short, and I only wish to warn you all about a seller on BYC selling "Ayam Cemani" hatching eggs. I wont give his BYC user out because it might be against the rules.But I will give you his Ebay seller name: exoticbirdimports and discourage any of you from purchasing his hatching eggs unless you know what you are getting: a white-chested, white-footed hybrid with white feet as well. After three different orders, and hundreds of dollars, I have been left with chicks that fit the above description... despite failed claims opened via Ebay. On the third purchase, before any of the first round of eggs had hatched, I complied with his request to send money through PayPal as "to friends or family" to avoid Ebay fees. Unfortunately, this also left me unprotected and was a foolish move. Learn from my mistake. Here is what the eggs (one of three orders, at least) looked like: I have messages between the seller and I from when I first contacted them upon receiving the eggs. I was worried about the large size and dark color, and inconsistencies in overall shape and appearance. I was reassured that they were "purebred Greenfire line Ayam Cemani"... I also have screenshots of the original listings which I can provide upon request via private messaging. I wont post them here. I did notice that this specific seller has completely reworded their new ad and has had no further listings on Ebay... too little too late, in my opinion. There are so many established members of BYC with beautiful birds. And from now on, if I can't find my favorite breeds locally, I will be purchasing my hatching eggs here on BYC. With that said, I'm subscribing to this thread and will get back to looking at all of your amazing Cemani pictures. I just felt it was the right thing to do to share my experience and prevent any trouble for anyone else. And it has been EVERYTHING I can do to keep my hands off the incubator since putting my new Cemani eggs in. Thanks for listening! Happy Tuesday!

Those are not Cemani eggs. Cemani eggs are a light cream color. It's truly ashame that their are people out there passing eggs of like that as Cemani eggs.

 

[Randy2010]

This is the color that the eggs should be.