The Brooding of Allie, Casey and Latte

[Tevyes Dad]

FLASH! Casey just kicked Kaine's butt

 

[Tevyes Dad]

Casey ?!?!?!?!?!

Really... Casey!

'Ling power!!!

You aren't kidding!!!

Duck drama, new strong willed alpha type ducklings upsetting the old pecking order. The flock's going to heck in a handbasket I tell ya!

You have no idea. OK here is the whole story. Around mid day, I decided to let the 'lings out of their pen again.

Latte was a spaz and ran after all the ducks with her mouth open. They mostly ran away, if not, she veered off (it wasn't you I was chasing.)

Allie would run after the big ducks with wings in full flap. If you have never seen an almost 7lb Pekin duckling run, I am truly sorry I have not captured this on video yet. I will try very hard to do so in the next several days. Picture Frankenstein's monster stalking its next victim... Got it? Full image in your head: arms out, lumbering back and forth with a stiff gate... Now press the fast forward button until it gets to 5X >>> That is what it looks like

Casey was just chilling out. Didn't seem too interested in the other ducks, except Tevye - she picked a couple of fights with Tevye which Yvonne and I broke up after they had gone on for a while. She would also periodically go up to Kaine's jail and tap bills with him while he went crazy on the inside.

Fast forward an hour later. There are 3 ducks in the whole yard... The 'lings. The big ducks are all hiding out in the pool ('lings don't know about the pool yet). And Kaine is in jail. Pretty calm....

Fast forward an hour later. Waterlogged ducks finally decide to come out of the pool and lie down (all together) in a 10' diameter shade created by one of the gazebos. After a few minutes the 'lings decided that that was their shade and they chased the ducks out of it. At this point, I was concerned that my whole flock order was going to get scrambled because no one who spoke duck could explain to the 'lings that this was an ESTABLISHED flock and they should show some respect. So I did the unthinkable. I released Kaine, the toughest, baddest, meanest drake on the planet. I knew he would teach them a lesson, and I knew I could interfere before he killed them...

Immediately upon getting out, Kaine showed off his prison schooling technique: Beat up the biggest meanest duck you can find. He went right for Allie and he beat her good. She submitted and he let her go (I was so proud of him for showing restraint, I didn't have to interfere to save her.) Then he went for Latte. It was the proverbial two hit punch, he hit her, she hit the ground. It was over. Then he went for Casey.... 15 seconds later, he was still ripping at her so I got ready to interfere, then I saw, she was ripping right back. They did back bites, chest pulls, Kaine even flipped Casey over backwards, but she sprang right back up and got his thumb in her bill and twisted. He was done! He ran off with a big feather bent on his wing and nursed his wounds.

4 or 5 more times they fought today. They all ended up with Casey chasing Kaine around the yard.

Now the interesting part of this is we broke up all the fights between Tevye and Casey. I think Tevye had the upper hand on all of them, but Casey was still fighting. After watching her fight Kaine, I will let her and Tevye go at it until one of them tries to escape, only then I will interfere if it is necessary. I could see this leading to Casey temporarily taking over the flock, then Tevye taking it from her. This might lead to a real fight between Tevye and Kaine. I have always thought that Tevye would win if he fought back. Now since Kaine has been in jail most of the last two months, Tevye has had free access to the ladies. He is not Kaine. Kaine is every duck twice per day. Tevye is about 4X per day total. I think if Tevye won the flock, he would let Kaine have a perfectly good second place status. So it might be that I get Kaine's new super jail done and he no longer needs it.

No matter, an isolation pen is never a bad thing to have when you have ducks.

 

[Tevyes Dad]

SO IMPATIENT!!!!! - I am so excited AAAAARG!

Now that I got that out... We are trying some new things based on things we have seen or experienced and we will report on them along the way. Here is our set up we are going to try this time:



We bought a soft dog taxi approx 2-1/5' x 4' (10 sq. ft. - 3-1/3 sq. ft. per bird). This will go from huge to barely adequate for 3 birds (when it gets toward the latter, they will be making day trips out to the yard and only overnighting in the brooder so it will be fine then.)

Some design considerations:

* The sides of the taxi have fairly tough screens. This will allow us to see the ducklings easily and them to see us. Hopefully that will make them more social since they will be able to see us moving about even when we aren't directly giving them attention.

* The brooder is going on a table. At 50/51, we aren't as spry as we once were and this will make viewing and maintaining the brooder much easier. A strap will run under the table so even a nearly full sized Pekin diving into the side of the brooder won't be able to knock it off the table.

* We are going to use towels for bedding - at least initially. We have seen several people doing this for indoor accommodations on the house duck thread, and thought we would try it. There is enough depth to the taxi that we can go back to pine chips if we decide this doesn't work.

* The water will sit on a cookie sheet with aquarium rocks in it. (If they can't navigate it on the first day, we may remove it for a day or two.) That way any spills will immediately sink into the rocks where the ducks can't play with it. Hopefully this will let them make less mess. We will rinse the rocks in a strainer as required. Since they are aquarium rocks, we know that they don't have a coating that will hurt them (fish are more sensitive to things like that than ducks so it should be fine for ducks). The rocks are big enough that it will be at least a week before they could consider being eaten and they are nice and smooth so they won't be rough on the duck feet or the GI tract if they do get eaten. When the ducks get bigger (as well as the water containers), we will probably put them in a deeper container with sponges under the rocks.) We will see how that works when we get there... We will give them a nare/eye wash station once they have the hang of the brooder and are walking sure-footedly.

* The heat lamp hangs from a clothes hanging rod. It is supported by a chain so the lamp can be raised as the ducklings grow. It is currently adjusted for a 95 degree surface temp on the towels.

* To the side of the brooder we will have additional towels, their food, yeast and some washcloths for little messes.



* The electrolytes/probiotics are over by the sink where we will mix them in pitchers that we will use to fill or top off their water.

Now all we need are the ducklings.

Hurray I am quoting myself. I thought I would take a little time as this was nearing the end to evaluate the different things tried.

The soft taxi was very well built and was easy to clean. On the weekends, we took it outside and turned it inside out then put the frame back in and hosed it off then let it dry in the air. (We only did this twice and it was after the 'lings were big enough to go outside for a while. The stitching around the zippers was a constant source of amusement for the ducklings so I doubt it would survive more than two or three broods. It will probably make a good temporary indoor rest area for ducks in the future (injuries, duck of the day, etc). A steel cage would probably be a better choice if you used it repeatedly.

The brooder on the table was genius. The only "bad" thing was that we had to be very careful that overly trustful 'lings didn't make a leap of faith out of it. We had no incidents, but it always seemed like a risk. Sitting in a chair and playing with the lings or just talking to them when we passed was great and I think it was better for them not being towered over and for us not having to bend down to see them. I would highly recommend.

Towels vs pine shavings. In the beginning it was a no brainer. With teeny tiny 'ling poops - zip zip - the towels were changed. As they got older it got to be more of a toss up.

Effort: Pine shavings involve dragging lots of heavy loads of shavings out either to spread in your garden or compost pile, take to the dump or dispose of in some other fashion (perhaps throw them over the fence into your neighbor's yard

). Towels involve folding up the towel, taking it outside, shaking the poop off, then doing laundry. The laundry built up to a couple loads/day by the end (including play towels/blankets). I would say slightly less effort with the towels (assuming you have your own laundry and are not taking them to the laundry mat), but not much.

Waste: You go through lots of pine shavings in a brood. The towels are reusable. Towels definitely win.

Smell / Cleanliness: Pine shavings mix with the poop making a somewhat dirty pine shaving bedding. Towels absorb the liquids and let the solids stay on top. Since the solids don't mix in with the towels, the towels very quickly become covered in poop and the ducklings end up laying in it so they are dirtier than they would have been in shavings. This necessitated baths every day (which is fun time anyway) and toward the end, cleaning the brooder 2-3 times / day. Also the pine shavings kicking around makes for better evaporation. With towels, they hold the moisture so although we changed them frequently, the smell was worse than using the shavings. Shavings definitely win.

Mess outside the brooder: Shaving have a way of getting kicked / thrown outside the brooder and need to be cleaned up frequently. Towels stay put and it is very easy to fold them up inside the brooder so that all the waste stays inside them. Towels definitely win.

Expense: The towels we bought were about twice as expensive as the pine shavings would have been. But we still have them. If you do a single brood, shavings win. If you do two, it is a tie. If you are going to do multiple broods, the towels win.

The rocks in the cookie sheet drainage system. Initially this worked fairly well, but as the poop increased cleaning the rocks became more work and the effect of the water in the brooder had less effect (since the brooder towels were being changed more frequently). So we abandoned them after about week 3. I think the person who can figure out a clean way to get water to ducklings from their small size to their large size and allow them to clean their eyes and nares the whole time will be a very rich person. In the mean time, various impromptu drinkers worked fairly well. I still don't know a great answer here. Ducklings are messy.

Heat Lamp: I did it the way I always have start at 95F directly under it. Then throw out the thermometer and watch the ducks. The whole 5 degrees / week thing I don't think takes into account the rest of their environment. There is a big difference between having a 95F heat lamp spot in a 78F house and say a 46F at night barn. They can't control their heat well, but they know if they are hot or cold. I give them a hot area and room to escape it. If they avoid it all day, I raise the lamp up.

Niacin: We tried the brewer's yeast this time around. After a couple weeks we decided to go back to the niacin in the water. For us, we mix two one-gallon pitchers of "duck water" at a time and then we fill the drinkers as needed from this. Using the niacin, the procedure is open the jar of electrolytes/probiotics and put one scoop in each pitcher, cut a niacin capsule in half and pour each half into one of the pitchers, fill with water - done. Now we can just keep the feeder full and not worry about measuring the food / yeast. The yeast is messy and it gets in the water anyway. It tends to settle to the bottom of the food so the amount the ducks get is inconsistent. We went to our natural foods store and got 100 500mg capsules from Solaray for under $10 (non-time release, with the flushing warning so they are nicotinic acid). The way we are using it, this would make 200 gallons of duck water - more than enough for a single brood. This works out to 250mg per gallon which is a bit high. If that was a concern, one could use 4 one gallon containers and divide up the capsule in them and that would work out to about 125mg per gallon which would be perfect. I am not too concerned about the overage because using the yeast method, an individual duck could get way more or less of the yeast depending on where in the food they were eating and if they threw the yeast in the water when they drank or if they swallowed it. With the niacin in the water, the only variable is how much water they drink.

 

[Julie Birb]

I THINK I LOVE DUCKS MORE BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS ON HERE. YOU ALL ENABLE ME.

 

[Tevyes Dad]

I THINK I LOVE DUCKS MORE BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS ON HERE. YOU ALL ENABLE ME.

Here is some more enabling...

Casey and Latte have completely mastered the pool ramp and can come and go as they please. Allie can't yet. Her legs are strong enough now to walk all day and to run at least 70' at a time. But climbing is a bit of a challenge still. She'll get it... In the meantime, there is still one kiddie pool in the yard so Allie can swim when she likes and when we are around and her sisters are in the big pool, we will put Allie in with them. She really enjoys it.

Here Casey and Latte went and joined Tevye in the big pool. After Casey kicked Tevye's butt, he acknowledged that she was above him and they have gotten along famously. Tevye is the only duck I have regularly seen all three of the babies with. It was the same when Noir and Mystique were babies. Tevye does seem to have some pervy designs on Allie, but she is bigger than he is so he might not know she is just a 'ling. Anyway, he isn't too aggressive about it and she can just swim away saying, "no thank you."





In contrast to Tevye's non-aggressive pursuing of Allie, I saw one of the funniest things of my life yesterday when we let Kaine out on parole (he is getting better and is often out for nearly an hour before he has to go back in jail). Kaine decided that he wanted a little action from Pocahontas. For some reason Pocahontas was having none of that (she is usually pretty willing). So out of nowhere zoooom shooting past me is Pocahontas and Kaine. Pocahontas is running for all she is worth swerving left and right as she ran, and Kaine is riding on her back holding on her neck with his bill, one foot in the middle of her back, and his other foot hopping along the ground on the side like he was riding a skate board or a razor on X games.

This went on for at least 50' (then they disappeared behind the pool and I couldn't see them.) Ducks do the darndest things...

Edit: Also in the news with Kaine yesterday... When we let him out, normally the first thing he does is make a bee-line for the big pool. Well yesterday he got halfway up the ramp and Casey came from inside the pool and walked up to the peak of the ramp. Kaine stopped in his tracks... He looked at Casey. Casey just stood there. He turned around and walked back down the ramp and never went into the pool the whole 1-1/2 hours he was out (Casey got out of the pool 5 minutes later so he had a free pool available most of the time.) The only action between Kaine and a duckling the whole time was he walked near Allie and looked at her, she quick stepped a few feet away from him and he let her be. So although friendships haven't really been made yet (with the possible exception of Tevye), the entire flock (all 15) are getting along. Even Latte has calmed down for the most part.

 

[Tevyes Dad]

SO IMPATIENT!!!!! - I am so excited AAAAARG!

Now that I got that out... We are trying some new things based on things we have seen or experienced and we will report on them along the way. Here is our set up we are going to try this time:



We bought a soft dog taxi approx 2-1/5' x 4' (10 sq. ft. - 3-1/3 sq. ft. per bird). This will go from huge to barely adequate for 3 birds (when it gets toward the latter, they will be making day trips out to the yard and only overnighting in the brooder so it will be fine then.)

Some design considerations:

* The sides of the taxi have fairly tough screens. This will allow us to see the ducklings easily and them to see us. Hopefully that will make them more social since they will be able to see us moving about even when we aren't directly giving them attention.

* The brooder is going on a table. At 50/51, we aren't as spry as we once were and this will make viewing and maintaining the brooder much easier. A strap will run under the table so even a nearly full sized Pekin diving into the side of the brooder won't be able to knock it off the table.

* We are going to use towels for bedding - at least initially. We have seen several people doing this for indoor accommodations on the house duck thread, and thought we would try it. There is enough depth to the taxi that we can go back to pine chips if we decide this doesn't work.

* The water will sit on a cookie sheet with aquarium rocks in it. (If they can't navigate it on the first day, we may remove it for a day or two.) That way any spills will immediately sink into the rocks where the ducks can't play with it. Hopefully this will let them make less mess. We will rinse the rocks in a strainer as required. Since they are aquarium rocks, we know that they don't have a coating that will hurt them (fish are more sensitive to things like that than ducks so it should be fine for ducks). The rocks are big enough that it will be at least a week before they could consider being eaten and they are nice and smooth so they won't be rough on the duck feet or the GI tract if they do get eaten. When the ducks get bigger (as well as the water containers), we will probably put them in a deeper container with sponges under the rocks.) We will see how that works when we get there... We will give them a nare/eye wash station once they have the hang of the brooder and are walking sure-footedly.

* The heat lamp hangs from a clothes hanging rod. It is supported by a chain so the lamp can be raised as the ducklings grow. It is currently adjusted for a 95 degree surface temp on the towels.

* To the side of the brooder we will have additional towels, their food, yeast and some washcloths for little messes.



* The electrolytes/probiotics are over by the sink where we will mix them in pitchers that we will use to fill or top off their water.

Now all we need are the ducklings.

 

[Debs Flock]

Eeeeee...how much longer!??

Very nice set up!

Questions:

Was the soft sided dog taxi expensive?
Is there an existing opening on top or did you have to make some cuts?
Do you use brewers yeast powder or flakes?
Will you please take & share a pic of the thermometer(s)?
Does setting up and discussing the 'lings help the time pass or make it more frustrating due to the wait?

 

[Ravynscroft]

Very nice brooder setup, Tony!

Gonna be 3 of the most spoiled little 'lings ever!!

 

[Debs Flock]

Quote:

Either we will get a call early in the morning or (more likely)Thursday early in the morning.

Thanks.

Answers:

$59.95 delivered from Amazon - you decide.

Openings on all panels but the bottom. No cuts required.

Didn't know anything about it... got powder (before we used niacin capsules in the water).

Yes once it is back up to temp. After I get an initial temperature, I watch the ducklings - if they stay away from the heat lamp I raise it - if they huddle under it I lower it. The thermometer gets to be the swimming thermometer.

Yes

Thanks for the answers, Tony! That seems like a good price to me, but I've never bargain shopped for a soft side dog taxi.

LOL...1.2 million meal worms...no problem! I've seen those buckets of yours.

 

[tmorgan46]

Congrats to the new Mommy and Daddy Ling-lings!!! Awfully cute!! How can you both stand all that cuteness in one package?? We've been debating for 6 months what we'd do with the eggs that are now coming at a fast and furious pace!! Can't wait to see how they all transform over the next few weeks / months!! And great job on the brooder!! If you've got a patent on it, you'll soon be getting royalties from at least us.

Cheers! And here's to little twills, chirps, wobles and beginner quacks!!!

Troy & Tina