The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Our state vet said all birds carry Mareks some just don’t express it. I haven’t and don’t know of anyone who has ever had a bird get Mareks from a show. A lot of these show flocks are resistant to it. We all practice vigorous culling and the second a bird get sick they go. It’s a good way to build up a flock of Mareks resistant birds. Cull any birds that show the signs and choose your keepers from those that don’t get it.

That's exactly what I do. I add new birds every year, either by hatching or hatchery. I haven't found Mareks to be a rampaging problem for me, just a nuance. In general my birds don't experience much stress which can cause Mareks to become active. That's my theory why I don't see more cases than one every year or two.

I personally consider Mareks is everywhere. It just depends on the resistance that birds have and a good immunity system. I don't vaccinate, I prefer to cull any sick birds, and do what I can to keep my flock healthy and as stress free as I can.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Your state vet is full of crap! That is ridiculous nonsense. But, I've heard nonsense from other state vets, too, so it really doesn't surprise me, but it angers me, that someone folks put their trust in would just plain lie that way. Asinine, completely asinine.

Vigorous culling is a good way to keep stronger birds, vaccines aside. Weaker ones are gone, stronger ones stay. I've always said that a strong immune system can resist infection even if exposed. If not, why wouldn't you catch everything any other patient in a doctor's waiting room has?


Adding that I am happy to see you here, Isaiah! Wish you had time to hang around with us more!

I don't think all birds carry it, but I always assume all birds could be carrying it. Otherwise the concept of Mareks will drive you insane. It's the boogeyman of chicken keeping.

 

[speckledhen]

I don't think all birds carry it, but I always assume all birds could be carrying it. Otherwise the concept of Mareks will drive you insane. It's the boogeyman of chicken keeping.

Of course, if you purchase birds, you must entertain the possibility. But saying Marek's is everywhere, ubiquitous, is different from saying that all birds carry it. That is simply not true, can't be true, it's impossible. With attitudes like that state vet and labs around the country, they will stamp a bird as dying from MD without tissue testing, by visual observation only. But, a tumor is not necessarily a Marek's tumor and most likely is not from MD. That is a very bad and, IMO, dangerous attitude by a state vet.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Of course, if you purchase birds, you must entertain the possibility. But saying Marek's is everywhere, ubiquitous, is different from saying that all birds carry it. That is simply not true, can't be true, it's impossible. With attitudes like that state vet and labs around the country, they will stamp a bird as dying from MD without tissue testing, by visual observation only. But, a tumor is not necessarily a Marek's tumor and most likely is not from MD. That is a very bad and, IMO, dangerous attitude by a state vet.

On the subject of Mareks I answered a post where an individual says the vets ruled out Mareks in her stumbling bird by a blood test. I didn't know that was possible, is it?

 

[Leahs Mom]

Hey peeps....
Even thought this isn't a gardening thread, I know many of you enjoy gardening and "self-sufficiency". So I decided I'd post this over here too... (Originally posted in a garden thread.)

@Arielle2 has a thread in which are listed TONS of information and videos on gardening and orchards. There are a lot of videos with broad topics that you can pick through and listen to the ones that pertain to your situation.

I've been working my way through them. Especially like Stephan Sobkowiak. Even though his "permaculture orchard" is huge, you can do it small scale. He encourages starting with 2 groups of 3 trees. I actually went out and purchased his full length video after hearing him in the youtube shorts that are posted. I have wanted to incorporate my chickens into a small personal orchard for pest control with no spraying and very little maintenance. His permaculture methods, interspersing garden plants and perennials throughout, are just my "thing" - inspiring!.

Also, lots of other videos that are worth the look including some on sf gardening for small lot.

Here's the link...don't let all the technical info put you off. Just pick through what pertains to you and remember it's there if you ever want a handy reference!

Thanks, Arielle2, for the great reference collection!

Here's the link:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...our-organic-and-not-so-organic-foods.1227809/

 

[getaclue]

holm, as I said before, I never used to worry about taking my birds to a show. They were healthy, hardy, resilient, tested, as were the other birds at the show. Breeder standards were high. More recently, there have been some newcomers that don't adhere to the same standards. Culling your best show stock is counter productive, since their eggs, and chicks are what fetch the most money.

Another thing, you don't cull for resistance. You breed for resistance, and to do that, you have to use infected birds that have survived the initial onslaught. Once infected, because of airflow, surrounding wildlife, etc. the contaminated area is considered to be a 5 mile radius. Dander can spread that far, quickly. Culling may eliminate the infected birds, but does nothing to decontaminate the affected area, and the contaminated area typically stays that way for years, even with disinfection.

I accidentally stumbled onto a site that had the research documents done by one of the vaccine manufacturers. Did you know that Marek's infected hens that survive the first onslaught, pass on antibodies to their chicks? The vaccine manufacturers do, because it affects the way the vaccine works in those chicks, and they had to deal with that too. What that tells us, is that once infected, it would not be too difficult to actually breed highly resistant, to completely immune flocks, depending on which strain of the Marek's virus is present. What they don't want you to know is that it would not take that long to actually eradicate the need for a Marek's vaccine.

 

[speckledhen]

I don't see the value in keeping infected birds, survivors or not. That's how disease is spread. It sure does not work with ILT. A bird who survives ILT is something to be removed because all it does is pass on the disease horizontally. While you may think you're breeding resistance into chicks, in the meantime, you are infecting other birds by passing it horizontally. Nah, no thanks. I'll cull sick birds. The ones who don't catch whatever is it is, in my opinion, are the strong ones, the ones with the best immune systems. That is more logical to me.

 

[speckledhen]

On the subject of Mareks I answered a post where an individual says the vets ruled out Mareks in her stumbling bird by a blood test. I didn't know that was possible, is it?

I can't recall, but I seem to remember an antibody test or something for Marek's. Maybe @1muttsfan knows about this?

 

[getaclue]

I don't see the value in keeping infected birds, survivors or not. That's how disease is spread. It sure does not work with ILT. A bird who survives ILT is something to be removed because all it does is pass on the disease horizontally. While you may think you're breeding resistance into chicks, in the meantime, you are infecting other birds by passing it horizontally. Nah, no thanks. I'll cull sick birds. The ones who don't catch whatever is it is, in my opinion, are the strong ones, the ones with the best immune systems. That is more logical to me.

As you well know ILT, and Marek's are not the same thing, so they should not be treated the same. The problem with Marek's is that, by the time you discover it's in a bird in your flock, it has already passed horizontally, and beyond. You can cull, treat your entire property, and wait 5 years to bring in new chickens. Usually with a few disinfection treatments, and a 5 year waiting period, your property is then free of it, however, there is no guarantee. Remember, the contamination area is typically a 5 mile radius, so wild animals, summer breezes, storms, etc. will spread the microscopic dander very quickly. Not only is your property contaminated by the time you discover it, but neighboring properties too.

When you discover Marek's in your flock, your entire flock, and usually your entire property is already contaminated, not just the birds in immediate contact with the one(s) you've discovered have it. A better alternative to culling everything, treating the property, and waiting 5 years, is to close your flock, and begin breeding the survivors. You already have a closed flock, so continuing with your birds would be easy for you, and in short order, you would have a highly resistant, to totally immune flock, and all generations thereafter.

When reading about the virus, don't just read the manufacturers claims, but read the research. There are a lot of maybe's, possibly's, and on some strains, the research plain out states the vaccines simply don't work. While the manufacturers tend to claim the dander from vaccinated chicks, when they're mixed in with unvaccinated chicks, or chickens does not usually cause Marek's in the others, the research says otherwise.

I agree it's better if you don't get it, but if you do, this is one of the few diseases that it's not better to cull for, but rather continue breeding the survivors to reap the benefits.

 

[speckledhen]

I still am on the fence about that, Cheryl. I get what you're saying, I do. But, if I cannot get rid of extra birds, the males in particular, I might as well get hatchery sexed pullets for eggs.

Someone said something about not being embroiled in someone else's dramas on Facebook, I mentioned that I had made a video about that very thing awhile back and she asked to see it. I think it's a good talk, really, so here is the link for you. Honestly, I think I need to get a tshirt with my motto on it, the title of this video.

You'll see handsome Apollo in this one, too. I hate that I can't hatch from Atlas anymore. What a bummer!