Glenda Heywoodo
Songster
Glenda Heywood
I raised frizzles and showed them for decades and the best is a frizzle rooster that can be put on females of regular feathers for the first generation
Also you can use a smooth male to breed to frizzle females
DO NOT START WITH EXTREME FRIZZLE as it has a genetics for a stringy feather that looks oily
and the frizzling of the correct bird needs to be a wide feather with the frizzle in it towards the head of the bird
extreme frizzles throw a feather quality that is too brittle and does not hold a good wide curled feather
always use the regular feather if no smooths are available in the original breeding
then in F-2 use only the frizzle male back on the smooth females provided in the first mating
thus it will give you more of the correct frizzling in the offspring of F-1 and F-2
Using three females on the original frizzle male
(smooths if you can get them) will make three lines of frizzles for F-2 and F-3 matings
ie:
female #1
Female #2
female #3
all can be mated to each others male offspring in F-1 and F-2 and F-3 etc
you mated #1 cockerel to #2 females
#2 cockerels to #3
etc mating the same females offspring to her also
the different female F-1,F-2,F-3 females can be mated to the original cock bird also
There is much to be learned about frizzles but is very easily learnt
do not put regular feathered breed type birds back into the frizzle lines as it only detracts from the ideal frizzled feather quality
if you have to use regular feathered birds just use them in the first breeding not in F-1, F-2, F-3 etc
If I have confused you please email me any questions
remember the frizzles have a modifying gene that makes them keep the genetics for frizzling
I will post the information on the modifying gene next
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri
ARTICLE #2
well having bred frizzle cochins for several decades I would not breed frizzle to frizzle
the "smooths" that come from a regular feathered cochin is the ones used in the f-1 mating
of father to daughter
mother to son
I always used the smooth females to my frizzle roosters
I showed both the female frizzles and male frizzles
The smooths are very important to the mating of frizzles
when using the frizzle to frizzle you get the extreme frizzles and will eventually breed the feathers off the birds
the feather folicles will not be in the skin
the chick will have curliest tight feathers and by the third molt not have many feathers at all
these extreme frizzles make for birds that can't stand the cold or the heat and have to be culled
the fact that if one breeds the frizzles long enough to each other you breed the feather folicles
the holes in the skin for the frizzle feather to come out. I know I tried it before I learned how to breed good frizzles
Frizzles have a modifying Gene which allows their feathers to curl forward. I had a pullet that had not more than 20 feathers on her whole body so she was a waster. I figured out quick that why take the time to feed and house birds I was going to kill 1/4 of them in the end
so went to using only smooths out of frizzles and regular frizzles. that way I got 1/2 frizzles of good quality and 1/2 smooths to breed with.
I personally liked my frizzle males for breeding to the smooth females as the smooth females had better type than the smooth males. I never liked a long legged cochin male
And I showed my female frizzles as well as the frizzle males.
Never had the brittle feathers that people speak of Just had them lose the places for feathers to grow into the body with. Folicle holes. but frizzles get a tight curled narrow wet looking feather if you breed frizzle to frizzle too long.
Here is a friend of mine from Australia that explains the modifying gene in frizzles
KazJaps from Australia
here is a Frizzle modifying gene (mf) that alters the ___expression of Frizzling (F). This might explain Glendas results. Put these genes together in different combinations & youll get various expressions of frizzling (or no frizzling). A bird may appear not to be frizzled, but may actually have the frizzle modifying gene masking ___expression (heterozygous for frizzling & homozygous for frizzle modifier: Ff+ mfmf). So the phenotype (how a bird looks) is non-frizzled, but genetically they have the frizzle gene. Glenda puts it nicely, Smooth Frizzle. The bird actually has one dose of the frizzle gene. Therefore offspring of 2 seemingly normal-feathered birds may produce a Frizzle (by the modifying gene becoming heterozygous or the frizzle gene becoming homozygous).
So, there are 5 main phenotypes (how a bird looks)
1: normal feathering (f+f+ Mf+Mf+ or f+f+ mfmf)
2: smooths, as Glenda calls them (Ff+ mfmf)
3: exhibition frizzles (Ff+ Mf+Mf+)
4: frizzled, less woolly than extreme (FF mfmf)
5: extreme frizzling (FF Mf+Mf+)
f+ = non-frizzled gene (wild type)
F = frizzle gene (incomplete dominant)
mf = modifying frizzle gene (recessive)
Mf+ = non-modifying frizzle gene (wild type)
FF = homozygous frizzle (2 doses of the frizzle gene)
Ff+ = heterozygous frizzle (1 dose of the frizzle gene)
mfmf = homozygous modifying frizzle (2 doses of the modifying frizzle gene)
* The modifying gene needs two copies (homozygous) for ___expression, plus the frizzle gene. The frizzle gene needs at least one copy for ___expression, plus not homozygous for modifying genes (if heterozygous for frizzling Ff+).
So, as Glenda explained, if you breed two smoothies together (Ff+ mfmf X Ff+ mfmf), there is still the possibility of getting frizzled birds (FF mfmf), about 25%. Also breeding a smoothie (Ff+ mfmf) with a normal feathered bird (wild type f+f+ Mf+Mf+) will produce frizzle (Ff+ Mf+mf), & so on
The frizzle modifying gene apparently is quite common in non-frizzled birds.
Well, thats the theory anyway. This thread is a perfect example why I like to listen to people who have bred birds for decades. It is not very common for poultry geneticists to have identified a modifying gene such as this
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri
I raised frizzles and showed them for decades and the best is a frizzle rooster that can be put on females of regular feathers for the first generation
Also you can use a smooth male to breed to frizzle females
DO NOT START WITH EXTREME FRIZZLE as it has a genetics for a stringy feather that looks oily
and the frizzling of the correct bird needs to be a wide feather with the frizzle in it towards the head of the bird
extreme frizzles throw a feather quality that is too brittle and does not hold a good wide curled feather
always use the regular feather if no smooths are available in the original breeding
then in F-2 use only the frizzle male back on the smooth females provided in the first mating
thus it will give you more of the correct frizzling in the offspring of F-1 and F-2
Using three females on the original frizzle male
(smooths if you can get them) will make three lines of frizzles for F-2 and F-3 matings
ie:
female #1
Female #2
female #3
all can be mated to each others male offspring in F-1 and F-2 and F-3 etc
you mated #1 cockerel to #2 females
#2 cockerels to #3
etc mating the same females offspring to her also
the different female F-1,F-2,F-3 females can be mated to the original cock bird also
There is much to be learned about frizzles but is very easily learnt
do not put regular feathered breed type birds back into the frizzle lines as it only detracts from the ideal frizzled feather quality
if you have to use regular feathered birds just use them in the first breeding not in F-1, F-2, F-3 etc
If I have confused you please email me any questions
remember the frizzles have a modifying gene that makes them keep the genetics for frizzling
I will post the information on the modifying gene next
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri
ARTICLE #2
well having bred frizzle cochins for several decades I would not breed frizzle to frizzle
the "smooths" that come from a regular feathered cochin is the ones used in the f-1 mating
of father to daughter
mother to son
I always used the smooth females to my frizzle roosters
I showed both the female frizzles and male frizzles
The smooths are very important to the mating of frizzles
when using the frizzle to frizzle you get the extreme frizzles and will eventually breed the feathers off the birds
the feather folicles will not be in the skin
the chick will have curliest tight feathers and by the third molt not have many feathers at all
these extreme frizzles make for birds that can't stand the cold or the heat and have to be culled
the fact that if one breeds the frizzles long enough to each other you breed the feather folicles
the holes in the skin for the frizzle feather to come out. I know I tried it before I learned how to breed good frizzles
Frizzles have a modifying Gene which allows their feathers to curl forward. I had a pullet that had not more than 20 feathers on her whole body so she was a waster. I figured out quick that why take the time to feed and house birds I was going to kill 1/4 of them in the end
so went to using only smooths out of frizzles and regular frizzles. that way I got 1/2 frizzles of good quality and 1/2 smooths to breed with.
I personally liked my frizzle males for breeding to the smooth females as the smooth females had better type than the smooth males. I never liked a long legged cochin male
And I showed my female frizzles as well as the frizzle males.
Never had the brittle feathers that people speak of Just had them lose the places for feathers to grow into the body with. Folicle holes. but frizzles get a tight curled narrow wet looking feather if you breed frizzle to frizzle too long.
Here is a friend of mine from Australia that explains the modifying gene in frizzles
KazJaps from Australia
here is a Frizzle modifying gene (mf) that alters the ___expression of Frizzling (F). This might explain Glendas results. Put these genes together in different combinations & youll get various expressions of frizzling (or no frizzling). A bird may appear not to be frizzled, but may actually have the frizzle modifying gene masking ___expression (heterozygous for frizzling & homozygous for frizzle modifier: Ff+ mfmf). So the phenotype (how a bird looks) is non-frizzled, but genetically they have the frizzle gene. Glenda puts it nicely, Smooth Frizzle. The bird actually has one dose of the frizzle gene. Therefore offspring of 2 seemingly normal-feathered birds may produce a Frizzle (by the modifying gene becoming heterozygous or the frizzle gene becoming homozygous).
So, there are 5 main phenotypes (how a bird looks)
1: normal feathering (f+f+ Mf+Mf+ or f+f+ mfmf)
2: smooths, as Glenda calls them (Ff+ mfmf)
3: exhibition frizzles (Ff+ Mf+Mf+)
4: frizzled, less woolly than extreme (FF mfmf)
5: extreme frizzling (FF Mf+Mf+)
f+ = non-frizzled gene (wild type)
F = frizzle gene (incomplete dominant)
mf = modifying frizzle gene (recessive)
Mf+ = non-modifying frizzle gene (wild type)
FF = homozygous frizzle (2 doses of the frizzle gene)
Ff+ = heterozygous frizzle (1 dose of the frizzle gene)
mfmf = homozygous modifying frizzle (2 doses of the modifying frizzle gene)
* The modifying gene needs two copies (homozygous) for ___expression, plus the frizzle gene. The frizzle gene needs at least one copy for ___expression, plus not homozygous for modifying genes (if heterozygous for frizzling Ff+).
So, as Glenda explained, if you breed two smoothies together (Ff+ mfmf X Ff+ mfmf), there is still the possibility of getting frizzled birds (FF mfmf), about 25%. Also breeding a smoothie (Ff+ mfmf) with a normal feathered bird (wild type f+f+ Mf+Mf+) will produce frizzle (Ff+ Mf+mf), & so on
The frizzle modifying gene apparently is quite common in non-frizzled birds.
Well, thats the theory anyway. This thread is a perfect example why I like to listen to people who have bred birds for decades. It is not very common for poultry geneticists to have identified a modifying gene such as this
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri
