- Thread starter
- #11
Heel low:
Hmm, responsible breeder...defined...
So you have purchased and made your lifelong dreams come true...you own Australian Black Swans. Congratulations -- that is some grand news!
Did you buy them from a RESPONSIBLE BREEDER that cares as much as you do about you enjoying the prosperity of these wonderful lovely creatures?? Well did yah? Or did you find some basement bottom line "good deal" and now you are pondering the decision you made regarding sealing that deal
because you are hitting brick walls with questions that need answering?
One would expect whomever passed along the responsibility of seeing that these birds have a good life, should be actively partaking in their care once in the hands of the new owners. That being YOU, the new owner of Australian Black Swans!
Yeh, as one responsible breeder to another, we are quite capable of the "hands off" approach too and let the other breeders do things their way as they so see fit, but what about the plumb newbie that is purchasing their first ones? You are never EVER gonna ask ALL the questions you ever have without first OWNING the creatures...right?
July 18 2015
Responsible breeders of any creature have a vested interest in the "after care" and "mutual enjoyment" of the creatures they have a hand in allowing to exist even if they physically no longer possess the being or the hatching eggs (I consider fertilized and viable eggs just as much a good breeder's "responsibility" as one would selling" day olds" or more matured stocks--we never sell hatching eggs, so that makes it easy peasy on us, eh!).
Not everyone is "responsible" that sends animals forward...that pretty much is the definition of breeder and non-breeder for us. Anyone more interested in the wellbeing of their bottom line is not a responsible breeder. Raising birds right, every responsible breeder knows you don't turn a huge profit based on cutting corners when it comes to livestock. Some say they make money but we here don't fall in that category and the ones running it like a business, well they will have to comment on their own thread about those experiences as we have yet to come to that conclusion, eh. Love and care, good food, fresh water, decent accommodations, happiness...that costs in resources...but the rewards, albeit non-monetary, are worth it totally. No expectation of profit here...and none required!
Now on three eggs in their clutch...Piper & Pearl's potential future cygnets - July 18, 2015
Rescued birds require new owners that know what they are doing even more so than birds from more normal situations...a rescued beasty is already a survivor that has endured more pain and suffering than they should to be sent off to yet more "oops" situations. We have rescued in the past for sure, but we only "rescue" what we figure we are capable of managing properly because we already know the basics and have experienced doing it properly...we know what we are doing and we know we can take it on and succeed. Not learning as we go along when it comes to that tender situation. It is my opinion that a rescued entity is better off humanely put down than bounced around and around from one place to another or sent to someone that has no clue about what to do with them and makes it even more unpleasant. Not all situations are "fixable" and sometimes the resolution is sadly more a "let's end the suffering" now before it gets worse.
New persons should not be passing on progeny if they themselves cannot man up to the duty of educating people that take on these birds so things begin off in a promising, good way. It lets everyone involved down, hard...real hard!
It is my opinion that responsible wild waterfowl breeders do not allow "siblings" to be sold as "breeding" pairs. There seems to routinely be small stunted Black Swans dumped at the Auction sales...tiny birds, unthrifty, dull feathered, sickly inbred birds, often unable to produce eggs, let alone viable progeny. Nobody seems to care the representative is a mere shadow of what they truly should be...simply being able to list "Oz Black Swan" on the sales poster seems warranted. Sadly the birds (and unsuspecting buyers), suffer because the producers of these kinds are lax about keeping on the up and up with additions of new bloodlines to keep the relatively small gene pools healthy with diversity. That takes effort to do, bring in new blood and plan the matings...sometimes that simply explains why the birds are at the auction. Someone sees to it that consistently there is something there to represent that slot. Auction sales, those can be a dumping ground where persons start learning why some birds cost dirt cheap and other birds cost much more than basement bargains do. Some bargains ain't good deals and anyone basing value on the lowest possible $ price when it comes to a hobby of wild waterfowl, that in itself screams "they deserve exactly what the pay for."
We imported new genetics here to ensure the matings we allow to happen are genetically diverse and healthy. Not all "birds" are of the same quality; Stove Pipe is a direct Holland import (I don't speak Dutch but he does seem to understand "Eat yer greens before Pearl slurps them all up fer herself!"
), Black Pearl is from the Southern States, and Fire Ember is out of the Southern States too but out of a completely separate mating (she is the younger of the two pens) and paired up with Smoke Stack, who is an Ontario/Alberta crossing. Inbreeding is an issue when you see birds like the Mandarin Ducks turning up stunted in size, muted colour expression (fuzzy patterns, not vivid and clearly defined like they should be), even ducks that are blind; too inbred from generations of "brother to sister" matings with no introduction of new blood. Something is rotten in Denmark, eh.
It is our opinion that wild species will not prosper as well with inbreeding as some of our more domesticated stocks will, say chickens or the Calls even (bantam ducks should be petite, but not the Black Swans!). Beware and hold fast to "caveat emptor"...my spouse and I have had poultry for over 90+ years in combined experiences and we have had the Blacks since 2009--six years in the lifespan of a bird that I am told may live 30 to 40 years in captivity((???)). No idea yet if that expected life span is true...but we sure are planning to find that out pending our own life expectancy.
Some dreams come true to become nightmares if you do not work at directing it towards succeeding. Go slow...nothing SCREAMS caution like acquiring a bird that has the potential to live for decades...once you possess them, you kinda sealed yer fate on that, haven't yah? Unless you are willing to dump them on someone unsuspecting like you once were and try it again...sigh--two wrongs never make a right (but two rights might make a left!
). I'd rather for all concerned, one does not buy and have to sell and buy all over again...do it right the first time and never EVER have to endure a less than pleasant experience like owning crap birds made to feed a sic market place. If there is no one willing to bid on a small, dismal, inbred bird...there is no market to feed and with no market, funny how those practices cease to carry on because the demand stops pulling product thru. Sounds heartless to be this stern about quality in living beings but someone has to make others aware that without standards of quality and not allowing mediocre to be tolerated, there may be a chance people have to step up and do the right things...quit being complacent, cheap and lazy because there is always a buyer that will get bamboozled cause nobody made them aware of it...not proper conduct!
Responsible breeders invest themselves in the ongoing happiness of the creatures they choose to allow to make more of themselves and then send the progeny out into the world knowing they will be cared for well because the breeder made it their duty to ensure new owners were suitable and armed to the teeth (chook teeth?) with knowledge to do well at this endeavour. A good breeder's reputation is hinged on the welfare of what they sell and how it is cared for by others; we don't let just anyone have what we allowed to live and one of the reasons we make efforts to ensure the ongoing care and love continues after us--part of our responsibility is to educate new owners or why bother to set up the heartaches? This is suppose to be a setup to have lots and lots of fun, not be miserable...right??
Quite frankly, I'd sooner have an omelette than hear back something I let go to new owners is now in misery and suffering needlessly because, I the Breeder never did my part in this potentially wonderful adventure. Answering questions in regards to the "education" of the new owners IS a good breeder's responsibility. Responsible breeders budget that in your scheme of things or you don't bother to send product out. Nobody holds a gun to yer head to sell hatching eggs or incubate birds when you don't have the ability to work with your customers so they WIN with the Fancy, eh.
Sure, creatures are deemed by "law" to be "property" but any person that deals in "live property" should balance the money they made in their "sales" with more ethical responsibility than they sold you an unliving "product" for you to deal with on your own now. Grrr...onus is on the breeder or they should not be producing product to send off.
Bottom line to a responsible breeder...HAPPINESS and JOY to the creatures they allow to be created with their educated new owners...not too complicated, eh?
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
Hmm, responsible breeder...defined...
So you have purchased and made your lifelong dreams come true...you own Australian Black Swans. Congratulations -- that is some grand news!
Did you buy them from a RESPONSIBLE BREEDER that cares as much as you do about you enjoying the prosperity of these wonderful lovely creatures?? Well did yah? Or did you find some basement bottom line "good deal" and now you are pondering the decision you made regarding sealing that deal
One would expect whomever passed along the responsibility of seeing that these birds have a good life, should be actively partaking in their care once in the hands of the new owners. That being YOU, the new owner of Australian Black Swans!
Yeh, as one responsible breeder to another, we are quite capable of the "hands off" approach too and let the other breeders do things their way as they so see fit, but what about the plumb newbie that is purchasing their first ones? You are never EVER gonna ask ALL the questions you ever have without first OWNING the creatures...right?
July 18 2015
Responsible breeders of any creature have a vested interest in the "after care" and "mutual enjoyment" of the creatures they have a hand in allowing to exist even if they physically no longer possess the being or the hatching eggs (I consider fertilized and viable eggs just as much a good breeder's "responsibility" as one would selling" day olds" or more matured stocks--we never sell hatching eggs, so that makes it easy peasy on us, eh!).
Not everyone is "responsible" that sends animals forward...that pretty much is the definition of breeder and non-breeder for us. Anyone more interested in the wellbeing of their bottom line is not a responsible breeder. Raising birds right, every responsible breeder knows you don't turn a huge profit based on cutting corners when it comes to livestock. Some say they make money but we here don't fall in that category and the ones running it like a business, well they will have to comment on their own thread about those experiences as we have yet to come to that conclusion, eh. Love and care, good food, fresh water, decent accommodations, happiness...that costs in resources...but the rewards, albeit non-monetary, are worth it totally. No expectation of profit here...and none required!
Now on three eggs in their clutch...Piper & Pearl's potential future cygnets - July 18, 2015
Rescued birds require new owners that know what they are doing even more so than birds from more normal situations...a rescued beasty is already a survivor that has endured more pain and suffering than they should to be sent off to yet more "oops" situations. We have rescued in the past for sure, but we only "rescue" what we figure we are capable of managing properly because we already know the basics and have experienced doing it properly...we know what we are doing and we know we can take it on and succeed. Not learning as we go along when it comes to that tender situation. It is my opinion that a rescued entity is better off humanely put down than bounced around and around from one place to another or sent to someone that has no clue about what to do with them and makes it even more unpleasant. Not all situations are "fixable" and sometimes the resolution is sadly more a "let's end the suffering" now before it gets worse.
New persons should not be passing on progeny if they themselves cannot man up to the duty of educating people that take on these birds so things begin off in a promising, good way. It lets everyone involved down, hard...real hard!
It is my opinion that responsible wild waterfowl breeders do not allow "siblings" to be sold as "breeding" pairs. There seems to routinely be small stunted Black Swans dumped at the Auction sales...tiny birds, unthrifty, dull feathered, sickly inbred birds, often unable to produce eggs, let alone viable progeny. Nobody seems to care the representative is a mere shadow of what they truly should be...simply being able to list "Oz Black Swan" on the sales poster seems warranted. Sadly the birds (and unsuspecting buyers), suffer because the producers of these kinds are lax about keeping on the up and up with additions of new bloodlines to keep the relatively small gene pools healthy with diversity. That takes effort to do, bring in new blood and plan the matings...sometimes that simply explains why the birds are at the auction. Someone sees to it that consistently there is something there to represent that slot. Auction sales, those can be a dumping ground where persons start learning why some birds cost dirt cheap and other birds cost much more than basement bargains do. Some bargains ain't good deals and anyone basing value on the lowest possible $ price when it comes to a hobby of wild waterfowl, that in itself screams "they deserve exactly what the pay for."
We imported new genetics here to ensure the matings we allow to happen are genetically diverse and healthy. Not all "birds" are of the same quality; Stove Pipe is a direct Holland import (I don't speak Dutch but he does seem to understand "Eat yer greens before Pearl slurps them all up fer herself!"
It is our opinion that wild species will not prosper as well with inbreeding as some of our more domesticated stocks will, say chickens or the Calls even (bantam ducks should be petite, but not the Black Swans!). Beware and hold fast to "caveat emptor"...my spouse and I have had poultry for over 90+ years in combined experiences and we have had the Blacks since 2009--six years in the lifespan of a bird that I am told may live 30 to 40 years in captivity((???)). No idea yet if that expected life span is true...but we sure are planning to find that out pending our own life expectancy.
Some dreams come true to become nightmares if you do not work at directing it towards succeeding. Go slow...nothing SCREAMS caution like acquiring a bird that has the potential to live for decades...once you possess them, you kinda sealed yer fate on that, haven't yah? Unless you are willing to dump them on someone unsuspecting like you once were and try it again...sigh--two wrongs never make a right (but two rights might make a left!
Responsible breeders invest themselves in the ongoing happiness of the creatures they choose to allow to make more of themselves and then send the progeny out into the world knowing they will be cared for well because the breeder made it their duty to ensure new owners were suitable and armed to the teeth (chook teeth?) with knowledge to do well at this endeavour. A good breeder's reputation is hinged on the welfare of what they sell and how it is cared for by others; we don't let just anyone have what we allowed to live and one of the reasons we make efforts to ensure the ongoing care and love continues after us--part of our responsibility is to educate new owners or why bother to set up the heartaches? This is suppose to be a setup to have lots and lots of fun, not be miserable...right??
Quite frankly, I'd sooner have an omelette than hear back something I let go to new owners is now in misery and suffering needlessly because, I the Breeder never did my part in this potentially wonderful adventure. Answering questions in regards to the "education" of the new owners IS a good breeder's responsibility. Responsible breeders budget that in your scheme of things or you don't bother to send product out. Nobody holds a gun to yer head to sell hatching eggs or incubate birds when you don't have the ability to work with your customers so they WIN with the Fancy, eh.
Sure, creatures are deemed by "law" to be "property" but any person that deals in "live property" should balance the money they made in their "sales" with more ethical responsibility than they sold you an unliving "product" for you to deal with on your own now. Grrr...onus is on the breeder or they should not be producing product to send off.
Bottom line to a responsible breeder...HAPPINESS and JOY to the creatures they allow to be created with their educated new owners...not too complicated, eh?
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
