They want to make it ALL illegal. What do you think of Senate Bill 510

[buildingmyark]

Quote:
That's so right!!!!!!!!! Just let me live my life how I think is best.

It comes down to accountability and the free market. Guess what? If mass egg producers screw up and make enough people sick, consumers will realize that they need to find another source for eggs (just an example-this goes for any product). Maybe that would give small farmers a chance to thrive again. I am in no way condoning or hoping for irresponsible practices of mass food producers. I think that it's truly tragic that people get sick from any food. But I don't see the gov't doing anything about all of the unhealthy additives/preservatives in food or poisonous plastic/aluminum packaging. Do they really care about our health and well-being? Businesses used to be judged by their reputation and quality of goods/services. What's wrong with that? Wouldn't that solve alot of these problems?

 

[poltroon]

Quote:
Unless you are a farmer selling over $500,000 worth of crops, I don't believe this bill creates restrictions on you. I could be wrong. Perhaps you are one of those farmers and you have concerns. If there's a specific thing you won't be able to do, that's information that is worth sharing.

Something to keep in mind: just about every regulation, whether it works out for good or ill, is there because someone was seriously harmed or died. That doesn't mean that the regulation is always 100% good or without its own consequences. But, regulations are added because someone didn't take responsibility, and because the free market cannot bring people back from the dead.

The 1938 Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act - the law that SB510 amends - was itself created in the wake of deaths and injuries.

An article discussing that act is here, and the text for the specific incident is here:

In any event, 5 years later, Watkins moved his family to the relatively cloistered city of Bristol to join the Massengill company as head chemist. He was 55. In the summer of 1937, he set out to find a liquid vehicle for sulfonilamide at the company and turned his attention to the glycols. He based this decision on their chemical similarity to glycerine, a commonly used solvent in liquid pharmaceuticals [19]. He soon discovered that he could dissolve as many as 75 grains of sulfanilamide in 1 fluid ounce of clear, odorless diethylene glycol. However, the resultant solution tended to separate on chilling, so he reduced the antibiotic concentration to 40 grains per fluid ounce and quickly settled on the following mass-quantity recipe for a stable product [1]:

Sulfanilamide, 58½ pounds
Elixir flavor, 1 gallon
Raspberry extract, 1 pint
Saccharine, soluble, 1 pound
Amaranth solution, 1-16, 1½ pints [a synethic, bright red, azo dye, which was presumably added to resemble the color of the patented Prontosil]
Caramel, 2 fluid ounces
Diethylene glycol, 60 gallons
Water q. s., 80 gallons

No animal or clinical tests were conducted by Watkins or the company at large to determine the toxicity of the individual ingredients or that of the combination. Any possible effects of diethylene glycol on sulfanilamide were also left to chance. The company's sole process for quality control consisted of checking the elixir for its appearance, flavor, and fragrance. The Acting Chief of FDA's Drug Division, Theodore Klumpp, bluntly described the company's elixir development: "[T]he only criteria of its safety and value as a medicine were that the ingredients were mixed, did not immediately explode, and the color, taste and smell of the product were satisfactory to their so-called control department" [20].

Watkins was evidently unaware that, for several years, the FDA had advised against the use of glycol solvents in foods, on the basis of limited safety data [21]. He was also presumably ignorant of 2 published reports, one in 1931 and one in early 1937, which described the lethality of diethylene glycol in experimental animals [22,23].

diethylene glycol is, of course, antifreeze, and highly poisonous.

Commercial lots from 1 pint to 1 gallon were shipped from Massengill's Bristol and Kansas City plants, as well as from its New York and San Francisco sales branches. In all, 633 shipments were made. The product label (example below) failed to list the product's ingredients, other than sulfanilamide. In addition, a total of 671 physicians' or salesmen's samples were sent from Bristol or Kansas City.* In time with the mass distribution, a promotional brochure for physicians announced, "Our research department has just released an Elixir Sulfanilamide...It is ideal for your patients who can take liquids—but little else. Also, it is not unpleasant to take, so is suitable for children" [28].

Both commercial and sample lots were distributed nationwide through October 15, 1937—the same day that Tulsa physicians telegraphed the AMA to convey their autopsy findings from 5 children who had consumed the elixir.

This was written by a doctor, who had no idea what the inactive ingredients were, and who dispensed it to patients, who died:

"Nobody but Almighty God and I can know what I have been through these past few days. I have been familiar with death in the years since I received my M.D. from Tulane University School of Medicine with the rest of my class of 1911. Covington County has been my home. I have practiced here for years. Any doctor who has practiced more than a quarter of a century has seen his share of death.
"But to realize that six human beings, all of them my patients, one of them my best friend, are dead because they took medicine that I prescribed for them innocently, and to realize that that medicine which I had used for years in such cases suddenly had become a deadly poison in its newest and most modern form, as recommended by a great and reputable pharmaceutical firm in Tennessee: well, that realization has given me such days and nights of mental and spiritual agony as I did not believe a human being could undergo and survive. I have known hours when death for me would be a welcome relief from this agony." (Letter by Dr. A.S. Calhoun, October 22, 1937)
FDA: Taste of Raspberries, Taste of Death: The 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide Incident

Over 100 people died before the news got out.

The FDA could only fine Massengill for labeling the product as an elixir when it contained no alcohol. It wasn't against the law to adulterate medicines with poisonous solvents, nor was it the law that all the ingredients had to be on the package.

The chemist who created the raspberry sulfa drops committed suicide.

The public was outraged, and this incident is why the FDA was given the authority to require that companies test drugs before marketing them.​

 

[draye]

All I can say is if you don't think it will affect you the small time farmers. Just wait and find out, look what we have that is runningour government.. A president who hates the country and would like to see it ruin and his wife along side of him. Others that are not far behind him in that sediment. But I will also say I personally think he is a puppet to a puppetmaster or puppetmasters.

 

[calista]

Poltroon, thank you for posting that thought-provoking and infinitely sad account of the Elixir Incident -- and for your other well-reasoned comments supporting your feelings about this legislation. It's a complex issue with possible ramifications as severe and life-changing as what those involved in 1937 experienced, and I wish I knew the best answer that protects the rights of everybody.

 

[PortageGirl]

Sediment is right.

 

[oswegoscott]

Quote:
LOOK OUT !! I detect sarcasm !! HAHAHA

 

[oswegoscott]

Quote:
Unless you are a farmer selling over $500,000 worth of crops, I don't believe this bill creates restrictions on you. I could be wrong. Perhaps you are one of those farmers and you have concerns. If there's a specific thing you won't be able to do, that's information that is worth sharing.

Something to keep in mind: just about every regulation, whether it works out for good or ill, is there because someone was seriously harmed or died. That doesn't mean that the regulation is always 100% good or without its own consequences. But, regulations are added because someone didn't take responsibility, and because the free market cannot bring people back from the dead.

The 1938 Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act - the law that SB510 amends - was itself created in the wake of deaths and injuries.

An article discussing that act is here, and the text for the specific incident is here:

In any event, 5 years later, Watkins moved his family to the relatively cloistered city of Bristol to join the Massengill company as head chemist. He was 55. In the summer of 1937, he set out to find a liquid vehicle for sulfonilamide at the company and turned his attention to the glycols. He based this decision on their chemical similarity to glycerine, a commonly used solvent in liquid pharmaceuticals [19]. He soon discovered that he could dissolve as many as 75 grains of sulfanilamide in 1 fluid ounce of clear, odorless diethylene glycol. However, the resultant solution tended to separate on chilling, so he reduced the antibiotic concentration to 40 grains per fluid ounce and quickly settled on the following mass-quantity recipe for a stable product [1]:

Sulfanilamide, 58½ pounds
Elixir flavor, 1 gallon
Raspberry extract, 1 pint
Saccharine, soluble, 1 pound
Amaranth solution, 1-16, 1½ pints [a synethic, bright red, azo dye, which was presumably added to resemble the color of the patented Prontosil]
Caramel, 2 fluid ounces
Diethylene glycol, 60 gallons
Water q. s., 80 gallons

No animal or clinical tests were conducted by Watkins or the company at large to determine the toxicity of the individual ingredients or that of the combination. Any possible effects of diethylene glycol on sulfanilamide were also left to chance. The company's sole process for quality control consisted of checking the elixir for its appearance, flavor, and fragrance. The Acting Chief of FDA's Drug Division, Theodore Klumpp, bluntly described the company's elixir development: "[T]he only criteria of its safety and value as a medicine were that the ingredients were mixed, did not immediately explode, and the color, taste and smell of the product were satisfactory to their so-called control department" [20].

Watkins was evidently unaware that, for several years, the FDA had advised against the use of glycol solvents in foods, on the basis of limited safety data [21]. He was also presumably ignorant of 2 published reports, one in 1931 and one in early 1937, which described the lethality of diethylene glycol in experimental animals [22,23].

diethylene glycol is, of course, antifreeze, and highly poisonous.

Commercial lots from 1 pint to 1 gallon were shipped from Massengill's Bristol and Kansas City plants, as well as from its New York and San Francisco sales branches. In all, 633 shipments were made. The product label (example below) failed to list the product's ingredients, other than sulfanilamide. In addition, a total of 671 physicians' or salesmen's samples were sent from Bristol or Kansas City.* In time with the mass distribution, a promotional brochure for physicians announced, "Our research department has just released an Elixir Sulfanilamide...It is ideal for your patients who can take liquids—but little else. Also, it is not unpleasant to take, so is suitable for children" [28].

Both commercial and sample lots were distributed nationwide through October 15, 1937—the same day that Tulsa physicians telegraphed the AMA to convey their autopsy findings from 5 children who had consumed the elixir.

This was written by a doctor, who had no idea what the inactive ingredients were, and who dispensed it to patients, who died:

"Nobody but Almighty God and I can know what I have been through these past few days. I have been familiar with death in the years since I received my M.D. from Tulane University School of Medicine with the rest of my class of 1911. Covington County has been my home. I have practiced here for years. Any doctor who has practiced more than a quarter of a century has seen his share of death.
"But to realize that six human beings, all of them my patients, one of them my best friend, are dead because they took medicine that I prescribed for them innocently, and to realize that that medicine which I had used for years in such cases suddenly had become a deadly poison in its newest and most modern form, as recommended by a great and reputable pharmaceutical firm in Tennessee: well, that realization has given me such days and nights of mental and spiritual agony as I did not believe a human being could undergo and survive. I have known hours when death for me would be a welcome relief from this agony." (Letter by Dr. A.S. Calhoun, October 22, 1937)
FDA: Taste of Raspberries, Taste of Death: The 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide Incident

Over 100 people died before the news got out.

The FDA could only fine Massengill for labeling the product as an elixir when it contained no alcohol. It wasn't against the law to adulterate medicines with poisonous solvents, nor was it the law that all the ingredients had to be on the package.

The chemist who created the raspberry sulfa drops committed suicide.

The public was outraged, and this incident is why the FDA was given the authority to require that companies test drugs before marketing them.​

You just don't get it. Our gov no longer cares about us. FDA? HA-corrupt to it's marrow. Bribed to avert their attention. The egg fiasco? They KNEW there was a problem long before --all these health
scares are so further controls over us can be implemented with the public's approval. "Can't let a good catastrophe go to waste"
MSG? They took out one atom & gave it a different name--and still use it
Aspartame--same--a name change- on & on ad infinutum​

 

[Ridgerunner]

The egg fiasco? They KNEW there was a problem long before

You are correct. This bill does not address the egg fiasco. That is under the jurisdiction of the USDA (meat and poultry) while this bill would affect the FDA and its jurisdiction. It would make more sense to have all food regulation under one jurisdiction but that is not likely to happen. Maybe they need to address the laws covering the USDA also. I'm not sure how much teeth there is in those. This bill is aimed at food stuffs other than meat and poultry. If the egg fiasco had fallen under the current FDA regulations instead of the USDA regulations, they would have had to ask the egg companies to please recall their product instead of forcing a recall. There is also the matter of having a sufficient paper trail to be able to recall the eggs. Of course, this bill does not address eggs, but think maybe of salad greens with salmonella. That would be more appropriate.


Alleged secret plan"? Whoa--it's not alleged and it's plain as day now- little attempt is made at hiding agendas

foodborne diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations, and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm

I agree. The agenda is as plain as the nose on your face. I don't know how many of these deaths and illnesses are caused by other than meat and poultry products. The non meat and poultry are the ones that would fall under this bill. Just out of curiosity. How many deaths a year are acceptable to you so you can get by with no government inspection of food products and no traceability paperwork requirements? In other words, the regulatory climate that made the Grant administration famous, not for food products but for industry in general.


Businesses used to be judged by their reputation and quality of goods/services. What's wrong with that? Wouldn't that solve alot of these problems?

Again, I'll reference the Grant administration. I don't have experience in selling $500,000 worth of foodstuffs a year, so I cannot quote my experience with that. I used to be in the construction industry. One contractor was building a quarters building for us, a self-contained mobile housing unit (kitchen, beds, office, lounge) for about 10 to 12 people. Our inspector found a couple of welders that were doing lousy work. Many companies would have accepted that, maybe chewed them out a bit, performed some repairs, and kept going. Those welders had passed tests so they knew how to weld. The owner of that specific constrution company fired them. He took pride in his work and would not accept anybody that did not have enough pride in his craftsmanship to always do a decent job. So, yes, he had a good reputaion and he built a lot of our quarters buildings. He build so many of our quarters buildings that our department was investigated by the corporation to see if we were getting kickbacks to give him work. Th point is that although the company tried to maintain higher standards, unless our inspector had been doing his job, those welds would almost certainly not been caught and we would have received a defective building. You get what you inspect. This bill tries to strengthen the inspection arm of the FDA.

 

[xcsports]

I have been reading about this for 6 months monsanto practically runs the fda his history is he has a phd in bioligy then worked for the fda he left the fda and became a gmo seed company Creating beens with sterile seeds and tomatos without seeds he funds companys that have slaves in african and caribbean islands he now is trying to control the fda and because we have a lame duck Goverment he is taking advantage of it he is taking over svalbard seed bank in norway and trying to now with the usda but our usda has their act together not to let him though they stoped their black box storage system they wont let him or anybody take seeds out monsantos current plan is to keep the crops he likes then destroy the rest. monsanto destoyed the seed bank in iraq that had 5000 year old sacred seeds in it and dumped them and took the bottles then burnt the building down. so i say people should take orders of heirloom seeds and old breeds of poultry and livestock to keep monsanto and his goons away VOTE REPUBLICAN

 

[PortageGirl]

Big businesses, including Agri-businesses have Republicans in their pockets too. (I actually think ONE of the parties has MORE big corporations in their pockets, but I will try to be considerate.) Look at who donates to republican candidates more... oh yeah, they don't need to say anymore. You can still look back at past candidates though.

Neither party is blameless, but the Republicans are by FAR more supportive of big business and less willing to try force them to use safe practices. They've been bought.