Updated! - Test Your Diagnostic Skills - Warning, Contains Graphic Necropsy Photos

[Wyorp Rock]

Regarding the crop surgery, it was a case of do or die. I had been doing all the non intrusive stuff like oil and massage and vomiting for nearly a week and she was so emaciated I knew she wouldn't last much longer, especially when she lost interest in food. I can't afford vets for my chickens, so it was a question of euthanize or give it a go. I won't deny it, making that first incision was really scary and it bled a little more than I expected even though I did my best to avoid the blood vessels you could clearly see through her skin. I had my OH hold her on her side whilst I did it and I think this may have been a mistake as she struggled when I made the first incision and refluxed quite badly as a result and aspirated some of the vomit because of the recumbent position. She was very good through the rest of the surgery....too quiet at times and I thought perhaps she had died, but once it was complete, she was straight up onto her feet and was eating a little within an hour.

Quote:

I used regular super glue to close the crop up and it seems to have worked brilliantly. It was a bit fiddly getting hold of the edges to be stuck separate of the skin and blotting them dry(ish) before applying the glue and preventing my gloved fingers from also being adhered, but definitely a lot easier than trying to stitch it. I left the skin open so that if there was any leakage from the crop it could drain and just packed the wound with Germolene which is an antiseptic cream. I tried putting a dressing on it and using a leg cut off some tights(pantyhose to you) to keep it in place but she managed to wriggle out of it every time and her breathing was raspy with aspirating and I didn't want to agitate her any more than was necessary so gave up trying to cover it. The first night I convinced myself that she would die from respiratory infection from aspirating as she was very snotty sounding and ruttly. I did the surgery Sunday afternoon and up until yesterday there was no real improvement with her breathing but the wound was healing and she was eating a scrambled egg and slice of soggy bread each day. Yesterday, there was a notable improvement in her breathing and I even put her back in the pen with her palls for a short supervised visit. The wound is dry and scabbed. I haven't done any wound management on it since the surgery as her breathing was so bad I didn't want to put any stress on her. She has been alert and keen to escape and explore my house and poop on my carpet

whenever possible, so I really feel the surgery itself did not knock her back at all. The only thing I would have changed about it is perhaps having her held in an upright position whilst I did the surgery rather than recumbent, to avoid that reflux problem.

Here is a photo of what I removed from her crop.....clearly it was not going to come up via vomiting or go down into her gizzard, and if it had, it would almost certainly have impacted there, so I really felt vindicated in doing the surgery....I did not undertake it lightly. Interestingly it did not smell bad at all which is surprising considering that it is wet vegetation. I do feed a little fermented feed daily so perhaps this helped to keep things healthy. She was less than half the weight she was before surgery, once I removed it.


And a couple of photos of her and her wound from yesterday...3 days post surgery.



I did a search on You Tube and watched quite a few videos before I started and that helped a lot.

The only thing that is concerning me at the moment is that her poop is very liquid ie watery with some soft solids. What perplexes me is that she is hardly drinking anything and whilst I am feeding sloppy feeds they are really not sloppy enough to account for all the fluid that is coming out. I did irrigate her crop with saline during the surgery so maybe some of that went down into her system though. She has refused to drink at all whilst recuperating in the house but she did go straight to the drinker in the pen yesterday and drink which was a huge relief. Will be happier if/when(hopefully) I start to see some normal poops but she is alert and active, so I'm counting my blessings for now.

I would definitely encourage anyone who has a chicken with crop issues that has tried everything else and feels that there is no hope, to give it a go. The great thing about the crop is that it is not near any vital organs, so not a lot to go wrong.

Regards

Barbara


Nice job Barbara, please keep us posted on her progress.

 

[Eggcessive]

Rebascora (Barbara) that was an excellent post about your crop surgery. I hope she recovers completely. Nice job.

 

[rebrascora]

Thanks for the supportive comments but all credit has to go to the people who made the videos on You Tube I watched, particularly this one :-

I intend to create a new thread at some point to document it all in the hope that it may encourage others to take this final step when all else has failed, particularly if veterinary assistance is not an option.
I have to say that my patient has been a real trooper and coped with all the manhandling, surgery and confinement with calm acceptance albeit keeping me on my toes to ....she has me running back and forth to the kitchen every few minutes to see what else I can tempt her with like an harassed waiter with an awkward customer, and refusing to drink and pooping on my carpet when my back is turned and today when I let her into the pen for a supervised visit, within 10 seconds she had a piece of damp straw half way down her throat

before I caught her and pulled it out. Arghh! Needless to say the visit ended promptly. Does she have a death wish?
I am wondering if the incarceration due to bird flu restrictions is responsible for this... They normally free range, so perhaps boredom and wanting to forage on grass has prompted her to eat straw instead.
Anyway, I am pleased to report that her crop seems to be emptying reasonable well overnight and I can palpitate it when full without any obvious discomfort or wound discharge. The scab is firm and dry still.

 

[Wonderwend]

Regarding the crop surgery, it was a case of do or die. I had been doing all the non intrusive stuff like oil and massage and vomiting for nearly a week and she was so emaciated I knew she wouldn't last much longer, especially when she lost interest in food. I can't afford vets for my chickens, so it was a question of euthanize or give it a go. I won't deny it, making that first incision was really scary and it bled a little more than I expected even though I did my best to avoid the blood vessels you could clearly see through her skin. I had my OH hold her on her side whilst I did it and I think this may have been a mistake as she struggled when I made the first incision and refluxed quite badly as a result and aspirated some of the vomit because of the recumbent position. She was very good through the rest of the surgery....too quiet at times and I thought perhaps she had died, but once it was complete, she was straight up onto her feet and was eating a little within an hour.

I used regular super glue to close the crop up and it seems to have worked brilliantly. It was a bit fiddly getting hold of the edges to be stuck separate of the skin and blotting them dry(ish) before applying the glue and preventing my gloved fingers from also being adhered, but definitely a lot easier than trying to stitch it. I left the skin open so that if there was any leakage from the crop it could drain and just packed the wound with Germolene which is an antiseptic cream. I tried putting a dressing on it and using a leg cut off some tights(pantyhose to you) to keep it in place but she managed to wriggle out of it every time and her breathing was raspy with aspirating and I didn't want to agitate her any more than was necessary so gave up trying to cover it. The first night I convinced myself that she would die from respiratory infection from aspirating as she was very snotty sounding and ruttly. I did the surgery Sunday afternoon and up until yesterday there was no real improvement with her breathing but the wound was healing and she was eating a scrambled egg and slice of soggy bread each day. Yesterday, there was a notable improvement in her breathing and I even put her back in the pen with her palls for a short supervised visit. The wound is dry and scabbed. I haven't done any wound management on it since the surgery as her breathing was so bad I didn't want to put any stress on her. She has been alert and keen to escape and explore my house and poop on my carpet

whenever possible, so I really feel the surgery itself did not knock her back at all. The only thing I would have changed about it is perhaps having her held in an upright position whilst I did the surgery rather than recumbent, to avoid that reflux problem.

Here is a photo of what I removed from her crop.....clearly it was not going to come up via vomiting or go down into her gizzard, and if it had, it would almost certainly have impacted there, so I really felt vindicated in doing the surgery....I did not undertake it lightly. Interestingly it did not smell bad at all which is surprising considering that it is wet vegetation. I do feed a little fermented feed daily so perhaps this helped to keep things healthy. She was less than half the weight she was before surgery, once I removed it.


And a couple of photos of her and her wound from yesterday...3 days post surgery.



I did a search on You Tube and watched quite a few videos before I started and that helped a lot.

The only thing that is concerning me at the moment is that her poop is very liquid ie watery with some soft solids. What perplexes me is that she is hardly drinking anything and whilst I am feeding sloppy feeds they are really not sloppy enough to account for all the fluid that is coming out. I did irrigate her crop with saline during the surgery so maybe some of that went down into her system though. She has refused to drink at all whilst recuperating in the house but she did go straight to the drinker in the pen yesterday and drink which was a huge relief. Will be happier if/when(hopefully) I start to see some normal poops but she is alert and active, so I'm counting my blessings for now.

I would definitely encourage anyone who has a chicken with crop issues that has tried everything else and feels that there is no hope, to give it a go. The great thing about the crop is that it is not near any vital organs, so not a lot to go wrong.

Regards

Barbara

You did a fantastic job!! I thought about using steristrips but never thought of superglue! (Durr moment). Well done. you saved her life; I hope she leads a long and full one x

 

[Wonderwend]

I'm glad to hear she seems to be doing well. It's a shame she tried to eat the bedding again. I cut out a square of lawn for mine to eat in the coop if they are confined. It's great because once they have eaten the tops I can just stomp it back into place.

 

[260906]

Hello, again. I shared the necropsy photos in post #322 above. Looks like it IS Mareks in my flock. I'm not sure when or where they got it, since I just found out they can contract it without showing outward symptoms. It sounds like a terrible disease that's hard to avoid.

You can see the preliminary necropsy report from our local poultry & livestock comission on my original thread:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1150567/dying-left-and-right/20

 

[Wonderwend]

Hello, again. I shared the necropsy photos in post #322 above. Looks like it IS Mareks in my flock. I'm not sure when or where they got it, since I just found out they can contract it without showing outward symptoms. It sounds like a terrible disease that's hard to avoid.

You can see the preliminary necropsy report from our local poultry & livestock comission on my original thread:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1150567/dying-left-and-right/20

Oh Sweet Basil in this case I am not happy to be proven right.

So so sad.
I looked at the lab report ( and did some Googling): the Eimeria causes Coccidiosis in poultry but I suspect if there was only a few then this wasn't too much of a problem for your hens. The Capillaria can cause liver problems, but again there are only a few.
Took them long enough to process it! Good job you're not living right next to a commercial egg factory!
How are the rest of your birds?

 

[Wonderwend]

Regarding the crop surgery, it was a case of do or die. I had been doing all the non intrusive stuff like oil and massage and vomiting for nearly a week and she was so emaciated I knew she wouldn't last much longer, especially when she lost interest in food. I can't afford vets for my chickens, so it was a question of euthanize or give it a go. I won't deny it, making that first incision was really scary and it bled a little more than I expected even though I did my best to avoid the blood vessels you could clearly see through her skin. I had my OH hold her on her side whilst I did it and I think this may have been a mistake as she struggled when I made the first incision and refluxed quite badly as a result and aspirated some of the vomit because of the recumbent position. She was very good through the rest of the surgery....too quiet at times and I thought perhaps she had died, but once it was complete, she was straight up onto her feet and was eating a little within an hour.

I used regular super glue to close the crop up and it seems to have worked brilliantly. It was a bit fiddly getting hold of the edges to be stuck separate of the skin and blotting them dry(ish) before applying the glue and preventing my gloved fingers from also being adhered, but definitely a lot easier than trying to stitch it. I left the skin open so that if there was any leakage from the crop it could drain and just packed the wound with Germolene which is an antiseptic cream. I tried putting a dressing on it and using a leg cut off some tights(pantyhose to you) to keep it in place but she managed to wriggle out of it every time and her breathing was raspy with aspirating and I didn't want to agitate her any more than was necessary so gave up trying to cover it. The first night I convinced myself that she would die from respiratory infection from aspirating as she was very snotty sounding and ruttly. I did the surgery Sunday afternoon and up until yesterday there was no real improvement with her breathing but the wound was healing and she was eating a scrambled egg and slice of soggy bread each day. Yesterday, there was a notable improvement in her breathing and I even put her back in the pen with her palls for a short supervised visit. The wound is dry and scabbed. I haven't done any wound management on it since the surgery as her breathing was so bad I didn't want to put any stress on her. She has been alert and keen to escape and explore my house and poop on my carpet

whenever possible, so I really feel the surgery itself did not knock her back at all. The only thing I would have changed about it is perhaps having her held in an upright position whilst I did the surgery rather than recumbent, to avoid that reflux problem.

Here is a photo of what I removed from her crop.....clearly it was not going to come up via vomiting or go down into her gizzard, and if it had, it would almost certainly have impacted there, so I really felt vindicated in doing the surgery....I did not undertake it lightly. Interestingly it did not smell bad at all which is surprising considering that it is wet vegetation. I do feed a little fermented feed daily so perhaps this helped to keep things healthy. She was less than half the weight she was before surgery, once I removed it.


And a couple of photos of her and her wound from yesterday...3 days post surgery.



I did a search on You Tube and watched quite a few videos before I started and that helped a lot.

The only thing that is concerning me at the moment is that her poop is very liquid ie watery with some soft solids. What perplexes me is that she is hardly drinking anything and whilst I am feeding sloppy feeds they are really not sloppy enough to account for all the fluid that is coming out. I did irrigate her crop with saline during the surgery so maybe some of that went down into her system though. She has refused to drink at all whilst recuperating in the house but she did go straight to the drinker in the pen yesterday and drink which was a huge relief. Will be happier if/when(hopefully) I start to see some normal poops but she is alert and active, so I'm counting my blessings for now.

I would definitely encourage anyone who has a chicken with crop issues that has tried everything else and feels that there is no hope, to give it a go. The great thing about the crop is that it is not near any vital organs, so not a lot to go wrong.

Regards

Barbara

Barbara, I was just wondering how your lovely girl is. Did she recover OK?

 

[rebrascora]

Quote: @Wonderwend

Thanks for asking....Vippy is absolutely great. She started laying again exactly 2 weeks after surgery and it was on my birthday too....I couldn't have got a better present!
I had problems reintegrating her back into the pen although there was no issue or aggression at all with the other chickens, it was just that she was eating straw within seconds of having access to it, which had me tearing my hair out! I kept her in a bare floor cage for a further week before I decided it was no life for her and if I had to do surgery again, so be it, so she is back in with them again and pretty near the top of the pecking order. She has the biggest, reddest comb of them all and although I look at her every now and again and panic because her crop is looking huge, it has gone down the next day, so all seems to be fine so far. Being able to let them out to range now that the bird flu restrictions have been lifted, is helping as I think the straw eating was a boredom thing. Can't believe how well the wound healed. I didn't give it any other dressing or treatment other than the initial packing with Germolene, which is an antiseptic cream. I didn't want to handle her after that because her breathing was really bad for nearly a week after aspirating, but the wound healed fantastically and the congestion cleared by itself without any treatment. She is an amazingly tough little chicken!

 

[260906]

Oh Sweet Basil in this case I am not happy to be proven right.

So so sad.
I looked at the lab report ( and did some Googling): the Eimeria causes Coccidiosis in poultry but I suspect if there was only a few then this wasn't too much of a problem for your hens. The Capillaria can cause liver problems, but again there are only a few.
Took them long enough to process it! Good job you're not living right next to a commercial egg factory!
How are the rest of your birds?

Thanks for the sympathy and info, Wonderwend. I'm very sad about it. Part of the problem getting the preliminary report was they were doing my email wrong, even though I had them double check all that in January. I'm amazed that they still don't have the testing finished. The poultry commission was apparently short-handed on staff at the beginning of this year. Maybe they will speed up now? I hope so.

The hens are acting fine at the moment. My older girls seem to have stepped up their egg laying this year, so we are (surprisingly) still getting plenty of eggs, despite losing 5 pullets.

The young roo is pushing my patience because he is being terrible to two of the hens the last few weeks; but, upon the advice of other chicken owners, I'm trying to give him time to grow out of his aggressiveness. We have a small batch of his chicks due to hatch out this week. We will try our best not to get too attached to them in case they don't survive the Mareks virus.