Vet suggestion for non-invasive bumblefoot cure

[Nike]

I have many birds who have somehow gotten bumblefoot. I have no clue why so many of mine do, but this would be way easier to soak each bird rather than do the surgery for the birds.

How many days does each chicken have to have their feet soaked for? When do you start seeing signs of improvement?

 

[itsthelaw37801]

And is the penicillin in addition to the surgery or as a treatment by itself?

 

[dawg53]

I want to understand this method. We have just discovered our first case of bumblefoot. Are you saying we soak the foot as an alternative to surgery or with the surgery?

Quite honestly you'd be better off doing the surgery. Surgery is quicker and easier, less stress on the chicken. Even with a small case of bumblefoot, it takes about one week for the tricide neo to make it disappear. That's soaking 5-7 minutes twice a day using distilled water until the footpad looks normal. For larger size or multiple bumblefoot, it takes much longer for the footpad to clear up sometimes months. Talk about stressing a chicken with twice a day soaks for a week...plan on no eggs for awhile.
As far as penicillin goes, dont use it unless it's absolutely necessary. You would use penicillin 4-5 days after the surgery only if there is continued swelling and redness. The swelling and redness usually means the staph infection wasnt completely or properly extracted/removed during the initial surgery....you have to get it all out the first time or you'll have problems. The keys are soaking the birds foot in warm epsom salts water for about 20 minutes, then cutting into the scab or pulling the scab out and squeezing the heck out of the footpad while manipulating it at the same time with your fingers and thumb. You want to squeeze all the infection out through the scabhole you cut into. Then resoak in the warm epsom salt water as much as it takes, same for squeezing the footpad. Here's a link to bumblefoot surgery w/ pics:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/236649/bumblefoot-surgery-with-pics-and-how-to

 

[cocosandy]

In chickens you soak along with the surgery to enable the pus and plug to come out easier...its actually easiest to do the operation on the sinkboard and hang the feet into the sink so you can run water over them. They bleed a lot if you do it right.
That said, its very hard to treat in ducks and I wouldnt do it unless the duck is not walking. If the duck seems fine it may just be calluses that ducks tend to get in their lifetimes. When I have had to do ducks I keep them in the bathtub for something like 2 or 3 weeks. I use duck shoes and keep neosporin ointment on them. You usually cant get the plug out so it just keeps weeping and it takes a long time to heal. I find that if I keep them on paper towels in the tub I can roll up the towels a hundred times per day and let them swim sometimes...keep it clean and let them swim...
you can try to soak them in the koi fish antibiotics but be very careful with it. I used that directly on the wound and I also injected tylan directly into the wound.
Duck feet are terribly hard to treat. Search this forum for custom duck shoes and order some in the correct size, keep them in the bathtub till then, and get a couple of pairs of shoes...coat with neosporin ointment and keep shoes on the ducks ...healing will take weeks.
As I said, it will be a miracle if you can pop the staph out of those little feet. Also, that is not bad at all and is only bad if the duck is really off its feet. In that case it may just need a rest in a clean area. Think twice before you cut that....
Melina

 

[cocosandy]

Oh and for chickens, just soaking doesnt work...you have to cut the plug out. The thing about staph is that it makes the hard plug and if you dont get it out manually it will remain and keep coming back. it will never fully heal. inject tylan 50 directly into the foot and coat with neosporin and wrap. let it set for 5 or so days and then change the bandages and clean it out again...
if you keep getting it look at the surroundings and see if anything like a pricker bush is where they might step on it, trap rock can cause it, perches that are too high, rough perches, and some chickens are just susceptible to it.
The koi antibiotic that people say will soak it out, is very strong and you have to be careful with it. It can make the outside heal but it wont get the kernel of the infection out unless its very early in the infection. you need to get in there and cut and scrape until all pus is gone and its hollow. use cuticle scissors and cut in a circle inside and pull the whole thing out. Be careful of the tendons.
It can heal but you have to keep doing this over time and keep them clean and wrapped.

 

[7hensandaroo]

Hi.
What do you think about this hen's foot?
Thsnks

 

[cocosandy]

You need to really hollow it out. get all the gunk out. if you have nail scissors, cut around the inside of the skin and try to pull out the middle. fill it with antibiotic cream and wrap it. Check in 4 or 5 days and repeat if it fills up again.
Be careful of the tendons and cords when cutting. Just cut around the pad,

 

[Hennenmom]

Hi,

I despeartely need some encouragement. So any input appreciated.

I noticed bumps on one of my hens last summer when I came back from traveling. Since this is my first flock and I never had a problem I had to find a farm vet since my regular dog vet does not deal wtih hens. So I found one and he said that cutting it out creates a different set of problems and if she is walking, eating and drinking fine I should just observe it. So I did for while, but it did not seem to shrink - so I went on the Internet to do some research.

First I found a youtube video about the surgery and I was pretty terrified. Mine are not that docile - I got them as grown birds and I can ask a friend here and there to help, but overall I am a one person household. So doing any treatment on them is stressful on them as well as myself. I called the vet again and asked how much he would charge for taking it out, but he again recommended against it.

So when I found this thread I was thrilled - ordered the tricide neo right away and started soaking.
I have been at it now for about a week - religiously twice a day for 5-7 minutes depending on her patience that day - but as of nowI am not sure if it is making a big difference - so I am getting a bit worried. I feel that crust is coming out a bit more on the top and the lower swollen part is getting a bit less - but since she has a crust on top and bottom and it is so hard, I am not sure if it will ever be able to fully pop out?!! I did try to do the Epsom Salt soak before the tricide neo to soften it and maybe remove a bit, but she won't hold still for that long a stretch of time.

I noticed while doing it that she had a small one on the other foot as well and while I understand that the avanced large one may take a while, I thought - after reading all the posts out there - that the small one should be gone by now with all the soaking. On that one I don't see any change whatsoever?!!

I hear some recommending cutting out either way - others say they had success with soaking - here my questions:

- did anybody out there have success with tricide neo only! in an advanced case of really hard bump?
- did anybody do injectible antibiotics in addition to tricide neo? would that be a good idea?
- when you use the tricide neo, do you heat it up a bit to make it comfortable? or will that change the effectiveness of the abx? Considering it is meant for fish tanks I wasn't sure how much I could heat it up and only went between room temperature and luke warm ( it is getting quite cold here).
- they say you can re-use the water up to 5 days, but some seem to just prepare a gallon and use a small amount each time, but each only one time. While in other posts it sounds they reuse the same water. I have been preparing about 1.5 quarts and then used it for two days...
- the posts say a little bit less than one tablespoon per gallon, but the dosage for fish seems to be a bit higher - would a higher dosage be ok, since one is not soaking the whole hen, but only the feet?

- if I had to go the surgery route - is there any pain killer that I could give her? I did buy the bactrim which is also a bit numbing, but I don't think that would be enough. I did buy all necessary suplies recommended - from the vetrycin spray to scalpell and vet wrap etc..... but just puling a bit on the scab to see if it is getting softer is already making her pull the leg away. While putting cream on she seems to like. I have a neighbor who is willing to hold her and we have our tentative surgery date set for this coming Saturday if there not a significant imrpovement from the soaking by then. Do I need to be more patient or is that reasonable?

I have to admit if it was only the small one I would go ahead and try cutting it out. But it being my first time and then such a big one is kind of scary - I am afraid I may do more harm than good, not to talk about traumatizing that poor thing. As of now she does not really show signs of diestress. She is one of the most active birds , the first to come running for treats and quite high up on the pecking order......so I don't want to do harm.

any encouragement highly appreciated. I feel I am thinking day and night how to make her better.......it is becoming a bit too life consuming and catching her for her treatment is becoming harder and harder. The night treatment I can take her off the bar, but during day time I do have to catch her.

thanks for all the wonderful info that has already been shared on this thread.
Ilka

 

[PoultryPedia]

Hennenmom--It sounds like you are being very pro-active in trying to find ways to address the problem.

I would think it would be helpful to give an internal antibiotic along with the medicated soaking, though I don't have knowledge of whether there may be any contra-indications for combining Treo-Nicide with other meds.

As far as painkillers--be sure you don't use one that has a name ending in "-caine", such as benzocaine. Those are very bad for chickens. I personally have done foot surgeries on my chicken without painkiller. I think it's hard to find a safe painkiller.

I do think the pain of the surgery is worth the relief of ongoing bumblefoot pain for the chicken, plus in some cases it is required to save the bird's life. During the surgery, I would lay your chicken on its back gently held between your thighs (like in photo). Chickens generally lie pretty quietly in this position (If they do suddenly start squirming a lot, it can mean they need to poop so need be turned upright for a minute so they can stand & have a "bathroom break." You can put down paper towels for the chicken to stand on to help their feet stay clean during this.). Or you can wrap your chicken in a towel and lay it on its side.


Can you post any photos of your hen's sores? That might help in providing some specific analysis.

Most of what I know about treating Bumblefoot is posted on the Poultry Podiatry page on the site linked in my sig below.

Hope some of this may be helpful.

 

[Hennenmom]

Speckled Hills,

thank you - I will look through the podiatry pages.
I have some pictures from a while a go and made another one several days ago - but cannot find my phone!! will search for it - but I could attach the original pictures that I had sent to the vet, but how do I attach it to messages? I cannot a button....hmmm....

In terms of surgery - my hen seems to be different than other hens - even when soaking her feet - I have to leave her seeing everything around her and not hold too tightly, then it is ok and even talks to me. But if I put her in a big towel or she cannot see, then she gets totally restless. Yesterday we soaked her longer and I had a friend hold her while I was looking if one could remove some of the crust, but just trying to gently see if the crust is movable she pulls the foot strongly away. She is not - as described in so many other reports - lying peacefully wrapped in a towel. I need a strong guy with big hands and even then it is tricky ( and yes she is laying wrapped in a towel). Even massaging it so I can see if it may pop out is a no, no - putting cream on she likes. So yes, I was also thinking of adding an internal antibiotic and I am looking into penicillin shots, since the oral ones seems to work more on the digestive tract. The black crust seems to be growing and growing - from top as well as bottom and it could be a very slow process of dead tissues that in the end may just pop out - but even for the smaller one that has not yet happened and that is a bit concerning after a week...I will continue, even though by now it is harder to catch her, so I can only do it after dark, which means only once a day....

I am exhausted - am having another hen that started getting sick Friday - I had one two weeks ago and the vet did not know what is wrong with her and after a week I had to put her down. This one now is also already very weak. I called the vet yesterday and he was not in and of course today is Sunday! I am giving her oral antibiotics with fluids and try to have her eat some greek yoghurt and soft oatmeal with olive oil ( am not sure if it could be the crop) - but she only nibbles a bit and that is it. This is my first flock and I cannot really tell from touching them what is normal and what is not. I really need to get in the habit of touching them regularly, so they get used to it and I have a point of reference. I am having them my second year, but for the first 1.5 years I had not a single problem with them and now it seems to come all at once....
ok - off to looking through the podiatry pages and if I can get the attaching to work, then I will attach some pics - thank you!
Ilka