Vet suggestion for non-invasive bumblefoot cure

[dawg53]

Quote:
I dont recommend tea tree oil.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=408353

 

[artsyrobin]

i did find this-
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=204587
so now i am going to do more research- from what i gather, ingesting it is the danger?

 

[dawg53]

Quote:
I've never used it...but why take the chance when betadine, iodine, neosporin, triple antibiotic are all readily available... I've always used an iodine soaked gauze with neosporin in the hole, wrapped it up with duct tape, then change it all out the 2nd day...then the 4th day it's all healed and I release the hen out in the yard.

 

[LesGan]

I have dealt with 2 cases of bumblefoot in the past 2 years. First hen I tried to treat myself and the second one I took to an avian vet. The first hen I eventually had to have put down due to lack of healing, severe weight loss, and the second vet treated hen healed well over a month's treatment time of antibiotics and my daily wound care. It was expensive to use the vet but it was a young hen with her laying years ahead of her. After the second hen came down with bumblefoot I had to examine the WHY of it. My chicken yard had been scratched down to bare dirt and of course many small rocks and stones left exposed and the rain to expose more over passing time. I purchased bales of pine straw and began spreading them in the chicken yard. The chickens love to scratch in the pine straw, it has also greatly cut down on the mud, but of course it is too soon to know if it will prevent the cuts to the bottoms of the chickens feet. They of course scratch down to the dirt at times but they are still walking on the pine straw most of the time. I just don't think I can bear the thought of having to deal with another bumblefoot case.

 

[artsyrobin]

Quote:
yes i was reading info on the causes- we live in eastern oklahoma, very rocky- since this all started, i lowered the roosts, need to add more bedding to the run, its possible thats a problem- i'll keep you all posted on how she does- by the way, is an oral antibiotic a good idea? i packed her feet with neosporin, the other hen is clearing up-

 

[dawg53]

Sorry for your loss of the first hen LesGan. It sounds like the infection got to the bone, once it gets there, it quickly spreads throughout their system. No amount of antibiotics will save them when that happens. One other thing I recommend is lowering roosts and sanding them down abit with sandpaper to eliminate burrs and splinters. Unfortunately I have huge pine trees and sweet gum trees in my yard...my chickens have to deal with pine cones and gumballs. I've been lucky since last summer...havnt had any bumblefoot problems since then though. I'm sure one of them will, my luck lol.

 

[cocosandy]

You have to cut it out as soon as possible. Look at the link on this forum that goes to the surgery (it should be stickied at the top of the emergency section)....scrape all of the white gunk out and try to get the kernel, which at its worst looks like a corn kernel or a stalactite . If the black callus has a stalactite sticking inwards from it, that may be it...but you still need to get the pus out in case it has any tiny particles of that in it. The kernel reaches in and grows in compartments that it makes....its pretty crazy but you can find it established in places where you couldnt imagine that it would be...so follow the pus. It likes inbetween the toes on the top!
Tea tree oil doesnt work (!!) but injecting it directly with Tylan will work ...just first get all the pus out. Use bactine spray as a pain killer.
Bumblefoot is a staph infection and the actual infection is the kernel that is in the pus. Youve got to get as much of the pus out as is possible. Use good tweezers and some sort of knife scraper thing like small scissors or a dental instrument. Spray it well with bactine and keep everything clean. You can run the foot under water...and its gonna bleed alot...
be careful of the white tendons in the foot but otherwise scrape all around in the hole until all of the pus is out.
The problem is that while youre dabbing it with tea tree oil or blue kote and waiting, the staphis going into the bone and it will kill the foot and/or the chicken. I just lost one that was given to me by someone and th eperson hadnt noticed that the foot was terribly swollen....I worked on it for hours; never seen anything like it!
But it was just too late. Poor thing got worse and worse and finally died of the infection.
Ive had it go up the leg in some of them and actually soften the bone and tendons.
Some just put down bumblefoot chickens, but Ive had some good success in treating...but its very touch and go.
Try to find the source of the infection!! You perches may need ot be sanded or you may have a thorn bush in an area where they are scratching.
Its not something that just comes up by itself...something sharp makes a hole in the foot and the infection (which is everywhere) gets in. Then it slowly grows until its all up the leg and in the bone.
If you catch it really early and pull out the plug in the foot and scrape around, it gives the bird a better chance of survival.
Look at a healthy chicken foot...there isnt a "fat pad" much to speak of...usually by the time the chicken has a black callus plug, its gonna have a pad full of infection and it will need ot be scraped out, packed with neosporin and wrapped.
The soak is much more involved because you have to do it so much. Its dangerously strong stuff and I didnt find that it worked better....try it in the early stages.....and if you've got a foot that still has pus in it, then Im sorry to say that you only went part way...and you still have to clean it out.
the ones with blu kote will get it much worse if you dont try to address it now. Sometimes its not swollen at all and there is alot of pus inside...
Id get it out, bandage them, and keep them clean...repeat as necessary...and spend the time to really clean it out...
the only thing that can go very wrong is if you cut a tendon, you can hurt the foot permanently...and I do have a couple of hens that cant walk perfectly because of that little mistake...but they were very bad cases and they were also how I learned...they have had a long, long life since then and are happy.
Also, I have not had much of it since I found the source in my yard!
besides the girls that came with it from another place, Ive had very little, and on the birds that Ive treated successfully, Ive had no recurrence. But it took literally months....and I used inject able antibiotics such as tylan 50, directly in the wound and kept the pus out.
I have that leghorn who's body compartmentalized the foot and it dried up and fell off!!...she walks on a stump and I keep some vet wrap on it....recently I noticed that she had a little callus on the bottom of her stump when I was changing the bandage and....boom...recurrence...right up the leg....the infection must have left a tiny part in there. It was a kernel and came out clean, but now Im watching it carefully because she is a great hen and very happy...a good layer and one of my older birds.
Staph is a very serious thing, and thats why you need to be careful yourself...wear gloves!!
Good luck!

 

[Kazzandra]

Quote:
This is off-topic, but watch your chickens for parasites. Pine straw is just filled with migratory bird debris because of where it comes from. The only time I ever had chickens get northern fowl mites I was using pine straw. Too bad, because they do seem to like it.

 

[cocosandy]

Its not off topic at all because bedding and yard material is a big issue with bumblefoot....anyway, I agree...Hay and straw are dirty and harbor parasites. They also can both mold and they smell. I would strongly suggest staying away from them. The little sticks in hay can make tiny holes in the feet and then germs can get in...
I was told by the hay guy at my local feed store NOT to use hay for chickens. I use wood chips in the coop, and in the runs I strongly suggest SAND!! Get a few tons delivered from your local materials place and have it spread in the runs and even around the coop to a depth of 2-3 inches. It is soft on the feet and drains great. Chickens love it too! There is nothing better for dust bathing! It stays clean because it drains great and its easy to spot clean,
Don't use trap rock or any sharp sided gravel...I tried it and its hard on their feet...a layer under 5 or 6 inches of sand is great for drainage, but I had it there already and had to cover it up;-) I have one run with pea sized smooth gravel in it and that is also great but when I replace it, Ill go for sand again.
If your run is really packed, its worth it also to rent a rototiller (if you dont have hardware cloth on the bottom, of course) and mix it up...then you can add sand.
some people get a tree guy to dump chips in their yards and use them in their runs, but there are woods that arent good for the birds and Im always worried about things like thorns in the chips that could make things worse.

I had a very hard time before I just went for it and got the sand.

 

[BlazeJester]

I am hoping to hear from cocosandy on this one... sounds like you have a lot of experience.

I have 3 2yr-old barred rocks that I noticed swelling between the toes last year when they moved from Atlanta (where they were raised) to SC. I thought it was weird as the chickens back home didn't have the same pinkish swelling between the toes (now I'm wondering about the rest of them...).

I just had my alpha female poop all over me in protest to being held upside-down, but I've looked at 2/3 of their feet now (the last one is terribly skittish). The alpha female seems to have the scabs just underneath the lumps between her toes, which I'm guessing would leave a gaping hole in that spot. The one with the worst case has two of these, but also appear to be only between the toes and not in the middle of the pad. There is no swelling or indication of pain.

These chickens now belong to a friend who I'm guessing will not have time to treat all 3 with soaks, and I just got babies and do not want to risk repeated contact with the big girls' staph and end up killing the little ones (2 days old).

Should we do surgery and get it out of the way, as it looks like these will be simpler procedures than digging around for a kernel? Or should we wait until it becomes problematic or swollen? My only concern is that the swelling occurred so long ago - about 10 months - and I don't want to lose them to something we could nip in the bud right now.

Any thoughts/ideas are appreciated!