Well Attached Udder on Doe?

[danielle2003]

Hi, I've been a member for awhile now, but haven't posted a lot lately. I recently moved from Arizona to Oklahoma...like 2 months ago. I posted mainly on chickens of course, but sadly had to sell them because of the move . I saw this category for other livestock and thought I would ask here:
So, I am wanting to buy a Nubian doeling that will have good udder structure. It doesn't need to look perfect, but pretty good.
I read it's always good to look at the dam's udder first. I found this Doe and she had a pretty bad udder....not good attachments at all, and her teats were at her hocks. Here's a picture.
The red circles are where the attachments start, which I think are way too high. Her udder sags quite a bit:

Then I found another Nubian Doe, which to me looks a lot better, but I don't know a lot about goat conformation.

This is from her first kidding:

This is after her second kidding:

So, I want to know what you all think. Does it look like a good udder to you? Would her doelings be worth buying? Thank you in advance!

 

[alwaystj9]

2nd one is better but not great. Okay for farm milking but needs to be bred up to a buck who either is known for improving attachments or who comes from a family with excellent udder attachments.
Doelings would be a crapshoot. Without knowing buck, ??
If you are buying as a pet or a home milker, okay.
If you want to improve the breed or raise show stock, find a better doe.

 

[alwaystj9]

Unless it was a really good price, I would look for another.
Do you have a side pic?

 

[alwaystj9]

Is she trained to the stand now? Can you go to where she is and try milking her? If you like her and you find her easy to milk and she's healthy with good production, and the price is good, go for it. If she's expensive or not well-mannered and easy to milk, her conformation is not good enough to make up for any of that. The doelings were possibly priced high based on color or sire. Dapples add dollars!
(also: based on tail shape & hair, if you get her, she needs copper & possibly selenium)

 

[alwaystj9]

Is he registered? Do you have info on his sire and dam? I thought you were looking at the doe to purchase, you are interested in the daughters from the picture above, correct?
You don't milk ears, pendulous noses or dapples. After assessing the mama, the next thing to judge by will be the buck and you have to look at his mama's udder or her lineage/pedigree and any other offspring of his that is of production age.
And about the mama, from the shape of her udder and teats, I wouldn't think she'd be easy to milk. Her first kidding pic doesn't look too bad on teat shape but her second freshening pic has her teats pointing outward and high inside her leg which can be a pain to milk.
Below is part of an article on conformation & dairyness:



EXAMPLE of a poor General Appearance:

EXAMPLE of a excellent General Appearance:

The pictures above are from my friends Jon & Tierney Kain from Hillaire Farm and host of Ringside: Dairy Goat Podcast. Referring to general appearance he said “This first picture is one of our first doe kids born on the farm from our first year…we didn’t invest too heavily into our bucks then. Second picture is a doe kid from this year related to both our bucks who both have national champions or reserve national champions in their pedigree.”

Compare the topline and rump of the top pictured doe to the buck, Rossi. His back is not level and his rump is steep. Even setting him up perfectly in show stance will not fix this.
A strong back and level rump support the weight of the doe's udder and seriously increase the number of seasons the doe udder stays high.

 

[Goat LOVER]

If it were me I would go with one from a breeder that knows what there doing. You would be able to see how much milk her dam, grand dam, sire dam, sire grand dam, make. As well as see all the udders, conformation and anything else (M*,LA,*B,+B). Even if your just getting a home milking you get what you paid for. Buyer a doe from a great breeder could cost a lot but in the end you have a doe that can give many years of milk, easy milking, a lots of milk. The kids are also worth more if Registered. Money is not what this is about but it's a little added bonus to having to sell the kids every year.(Because the feed for a milker/Milkers can cost a lot) I'm so much happier with my milkers now that I went with more proven lines in stead of what is right next to me. As a added thing you might what to make should they are at least CAE tested. But I test for all three.(CAE, Jhones, CL) Just to make sure. You can't tell if a doe has CAE with out testing because they don't show but it can still spread. It's the most common of the three.

 

[cassie]

If it were me I would go with one from a breeder that knows what there doing. You would be able to see how much milk her dam, grand dam, sire dam, sire grand dam, make. As well as see all the udders, conformation and anything else (M*,LA,*B,+B). Even if your just getting a home milking you get what you paid for. Buyer a doe from a great breeder could cost a lot but in the end you have a doe that can give many years of milk, easy milking, a lots of milk. The kids are also worth more if Registered. Money is not what this is about but it's a little added bonus to having to sell the kids every year.(Because the feed for a milker/Milkers can cost a lot) I'm so much happier with my milkers now that I went with more proven lines in stead of what is right next to me. As a added thing you might what to make should they are at least CAE tested. But I test for all three.(CAE, Jhones, CL) Just to make sure. You can't tell if a doe has CAE with out testing because they don't show but it can still spread. It's the most common of the three.

Just a comment. CAE is probably the most common of the three you mentioned, but more importantly, to me, anyway, it is by far the most difficult to get rid of. At one time or another, I had CAE, Johnes, and CL in my herd. I completely eradicated Johnes and CL, but, in spite of years of trying, while I was able to greatly reduce the incidence of CAE, I am not sure that I ever completely eradicated it.

 

[Goat LOVER]

Just a comment. CAE is probably the most common of the three you mentioned, but more importantly, to me, anyway, it is by far the most difficult to get rid of. At one time or another, I had CAE, Johnes, and CL in my herd. I completely eradicated Johnes and CL, but, in spite of years of trying, while I was able to greatly reduce the incidence of CAE, I am not sure that I ever completely eradicated it.

Yes I know this. It is some to keep in mind when buying goats. I only buy from tested herd and will never buy from a untested herd. If you have CAE I think it's best to just cull them as It is very hard to get rid of. Having my whole herd tested Oct. 24. I all ways pray there nothing to worry about.

 

[danielle2003]

I agree, the udder on #1 is not going to hold up well at all, and unfortunately one generation isn’t going to make much difference. #2 is better but not amazing, decent for home milking but definitely not for show or anything like that. Her teats look very far apart in the second picture-udders like that are typically difficult to milk by hand.

These two aren't related.... they're from different farms. She would just be a home milker. I don't show.

 

[cassie]

All but the first doe have acceptable, but not show, udders. If the dam has a decent udder, chances are her daughters will too.