welsummer roo x barred rock hens

[Rancher3535]

After reading through these threads on Welbars I am a bit of a maze. I have exceptional Welsummers and Barred Rocks all APA standard and then some. So I decided to try and make some really good Welbars. I crossed the barred rock females with the welsummers males. My chicks have come out all black, black with a little white spot on the head, and black with a big white spot on the head. I see some of your chicks are either brown or black. Humm did I do some thing wrong? They are only 3-4 weeks old but still curious as to where to go from here with them. Will the black ones turn into some kind of a barred?

all black are females?
black with a little white spot on the head are ?????
black with a big white spot on the head are male?

From what I have read is you take the Barred male from this cross and you put him on some Welsummer females. Culling out all other females.

Correct or?
Any one really know what is going on?

 

[The Home Flock]

OK, I'll take you up on this Rancher. I'm about to embark on the same project myself. I'm using the info at this site to go by:
http://www.harislau.info/welbars
Check it out. However I thought F1 (1st gen cross) would be classic easy colour sex-link. So maybe not so much. But it is the barred males from these F1 chicks that you want to put back to pure Welsummer females as the next (but not last) step.

Edited to say Happy Chooks wrote this: 'You will get sex link colored chicks - black sex links. Males will have a white dot on their head and females will not. The mother passes the barring onto the sons. Daughters are black with red leakage.'

So I guess that is the sex-link outcome of that first cross. See I've learnt something lol. Handy for me to know and for you to find out.

 

[Rancher3535]

That is the one I have been going by.

All of the chicks that were totally black were females. When they grew up they look a lot like a black star in that they had some brown/gold ticking in the neck. Egg color was really good on them so I am thinking with the next (F2) the egg color will improve even more. It will be interesting to see how they sex out in this F2 cross. I know you cull all of the solid colored birds and keep only the barred. I have two lines started one of a commercial barred rock and on in my heritage barred rocks. The Heritage look really good but are still really young and the commercials are good but finding them to be a lot more flighty than what I thought they would be. Time will tell about the personality of the Heritage chicks.

 

[The Home Flock]

From my understanding of interacting with other breeders in Australia the quality of the barring from the original Barred Rocks makes little or no difference in the final outcome so far as barring goes. Slow feathering genes give sharper barring in heritage Rocks but Welsummers don't have this gene so it is lost as you go along. So all barring in Welbars seems to be of a cuckoo quality. This is ultimately a good thing because it means the Welbar hens have a soft mottled barring in them that is not too obvious, making them appear more like straight Welsummer and retaining a richer colour.

Ultimately you can select for you own desired body type but to establish worthwhile Welbars the idea would be to breed back to Welsummers and aim for a Welsummer type. Dark eggs and good utility are also par for the course, but as that old argument goes the better layers don't always lay the darkest egg and conversely the darkest egg layer is usually the poorest layer.

Food for thought.

 

[goatman303]

YOO HOO!!! 100% hatch!!! 18 out of 18! /img/smilies/big_smile.png

We wound up with 10 brown pullets and 8 black cockerels.

We hope to keep the pullets to see how they turn out and what the egg color is like.

We'll grow out the cockerels to get the three best roos. Most likely a few will begin to show decisive form and temperament early enough to thin them down before finishing them out completely.

I think these are going to make really nice birds.

How are your birds do in now. Have any pics

 

[sweety birds]

I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread but this morning I have put a wellsummer cockerel (that's what I was told he was but not sure) in a coop with 2 barred Plymouth rocks. up until today all my hens and cockerels have just been running together. but I decided today to see what I would end up with if I crossed these two. will I get sex linked chicks? from what I have read on this thread I will get barred boys and plain girls? we have eggs due tomorrow from our mixed shed. we have 4 barred Plymouth cockerels, 1 campine, our welsummer, 1 black Orpington, and 3 mixed breed cockerels, one of which I was told was a jersey giant but i don't think he is. the girls are a mix of barred rock, 2 black buff Orpington, and a lot of nova brown (hybrid laying). is there any way to tell who layed which egg and with which cockerel. a sex link or colour variation. I have another coop that has big barry one of our barred boys in with our little brown ladies(nova brown) will these be sex linked? and if so what colours/markings will they have. we hatched from what I was sure was the above match and I got one barred chick with a white spot and a completely yellow chick, is the barred chick a boy and the yellow a girl? they are now 4ish weeks and barred is still barred yellow is white x

 

[donrae]

I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread but this morning I have put a wellsummer cockerel (that's what I was told he was but not sure) in a coop with 2 barred Plymouth rocks. up until today all my hens and cockerels have just been running together. but I decided today to see what I would end up with if I crossed these two. will I get sex linked chicks? from what I have read on this thread I will get barred boys and plain girls? we have eggs due tomorrow from our mixed shed. we have 4 barred Plymouth cockerels, 1 campine, our welsummer, 1 black Orpington, and 3 mixed breed cockerels, one of which I was told was a jersey giant but i don't think he is. the girls are a mix of barred rock, 2 black buff Orpington, and a lot of nova brown (hybrid laying). is there any way to tell who layed which egg and with which cockerel. a sex link or colour variation. I have another coop that has big barry one of our barred boys in with our little brown ladies(nova brown) will these be sex linked? and if so what colours/markings will they have. we hatched from what I was sure was the above match and I got one barred chick with a white spot and a completely yellow chick, is the barred chick a boy and the yellow a girl? they are now 4ish weeks and barred is still barred yellow is white x

Your rooster pictured looks like a mixed breed. He's not a Welsummer, sorry.
You'll still get sex linked chicks, putting him over barred hens.

Barred male birds can not make black sex link chicks. If the males are pure barred, all the offspring will have barring. If they're part barred, half their offspring will have barring, regardless of gender.

 

[sweety birds]

Your rooster pictured looks like a mixed breed. He's not a Welsummer, sorry.
You'll still get sex linked chicks, putting him over barred hens.

Barred male birds can not make black sex link chicks. If the males are pure barred, all the offspring will have barring. If they're part barred, half their offspring will have barring, regardless of gender.

brill thanks for the info, the barred cockerel are fully barred, and the barred hens are fully barred. don't worry i kinda knew he wasna a wellsummer, i'mnot an expert but we got him for free and was told he was but i have always had my doubts, but he's a bonny boy anyway so we don't mind. the sex liks from him will they be barred boys and non barred girls?
i got 2 chicks today from what i think will be barred dad brown mum and they are yellow one has black spots. these are not sex liked, so am i right in thinking they could be either? could be that my brown girls have been shananaginsin with another non barred boy, our black "jersey giant" or our "light sussex" who came from the same folk i got the "wellsummer" from. and are not as discribed lol
thanks for all the help though x

 

[sweety birds]

bonny boy happy chooks, I was at the local cagedbird show last night and seen some real wellsummers,one look at them and it's fully clear he'snot a WS. not to worry he'll last this season keeping my girls company along with the other 9, and next year i'll look into getting a proper boy or some eggs to hatch and old Westley will go in to pot when the kids ain't looking. new to birds, but i'm learning quickly.

 

[jasondgarza]

What color and size eggs would this cross give? I have a pure bred welsummer roo I want to breed to my hatchery stock barred rock hens in the spring.