White Cornish: Building a Quality, Sustainable Flock for Meat and More.....

[Pensmaster]

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An example of a poor line on the back creating a poor tail set angle that will not change when mature. If a drop of water started rolling down the back of the head it should be able to make it to the end of the tail and drop off. Clearly that would be impossible with this young cockerel. An early cull indicator.

Another one for the dinner table.

Here’s some that hatched 6-1-18. How are they looking?

These below hatched 5-15-18 from different seller

With this bunch there’s still one persistent black feather. At what age will they molt out it ever?

 

[holm25]

Here’s some that hatched 6-1-18. How are they looking?
View attachment 1553291 View attachment 1553293
These below hatched 5-15-18 from different seller
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With this bunch there’s still one persistent black feather. At what age will they molt out it ever?

In my experience with other white birds they don’t molt out black.

 

[Fairview01]

Here’s some that hatched 6-1-18. How are they looking?
View attachment 1553291 View attachment 1553293
These below hatched 5-15-18 from different seller
View attachment 1553303
With this bunch there’s still one persistent black feather. At what age will they molt out it ever?

Sorry I can't see the black feather. Where is it. When I was giving mine baths I also found a black feather/hackle on my cockerels. They molt multiple times. I would say the earliest would be when they reach sexual maturity. 6 months plus.

Yours are still babies. You can start looking at them for certain negative characteristics that would qualify them as potential culls. I like the profile of center one in the second pic but it's impossible to say from just one 2 dimensional pic. It has a good line from head to tail.

I haven't culled any at all yet but am starting this week. First round will be anything with folded back wings.

I think you just need to be patient. I would recommend supplementing them with some catfish chow on a daily basis.

 

[Fairview01]

Couldn't have done this my first year without Bill's help and wisdom. Thanks.

 

[Pensmaster]

Sorry I can't see the black feather. Where is it. When I was giving mine baths I also found a black feather/hackle on my cockerels. They molt multiple times. I would say the earliest would be when they reach sexual maturity. 6 months plus.

Yours are still babies. You can start looking at them for certain negative characteristics that would qualify them as potential culls. I like the profile of center one in the second pic but it's impossible to say from just one 2 dimensional pic. It has a good line from head to tail.

I haven't culled any at all yet but am starting this week. First round will be anything with folded back wings.

I think you just need to be patient. I would recommend supplementing them with some catfish chow on a daily basis.

Thank you, yes to the patience. I was mostly interested in learning the defaults than anything. Are the folded back wings wings that cross each other? Here’s the black spot several seem to have it yet in the same area. Again not yet six months old.

 

[Fairview01]

Thank you, yes to the patience. I was mostly interested in learning the defaults than anything. Are the folded back wings wings that cross each other? Here’s the black spot several seem to have it yet in the same area. Again not yet six months old.

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I'll get you some actual pics of it later today but this will probably be more beneficial overall. Look at the tail and you'll see the wing tips fall along side the tail not folded over the back in front of the base of the tail.

There are no measurements on this diagram. It's all ratios. When a Cornish is in balance it will follow these ratios. When I went out to select what I was taking to the show I followed this.

Some breeders like the shanks to be on the short side. That's okay as long as the entire bird changes and stays in balance. A large fowl Cornish shouldn't look like it has batam legs and it shouldn't look like a bantam on steroids.

Put shorter shanks on my roosters with nothing else changing to keep him in balance and he would not successfully be able to cover a hen.

I suggest you download this pic. It can be difficult to find

 

[Molpet]

I suggest you download this pic. It can be difficult to find

at what age do you start seeing this ratio?

 

[Fairview01]

at what age do you start seeing this ratio?

My opinion - at least 6 months and waiting for a pullet to start showing promise is like trying to pull hens teeth. The girls are slow developers. A lot has to do with their hatch date and their diet. My goal is to be done hatching by the end of April.

With Cornish it's impossible to know for certain what their real potential is for a year, perhaps as long as 18 months. The cockerels grow for a loooong time before being fully mature. Between 2-4 months I think all Cornish are absolutely ugly teenagers. They are tall and lanky. The only thing that can be said about them is they have no balance.

Now when it comes to certain defects that allows you to make culling decisions - they can be seen fairly early on. I started noticing those folded back wings around 2 months. It's a fairly obvious and visually large defect. It gives them a narrow V shape rather than being a blocky V shape. A shrimp tail, being loosely feathered, comb development and placement on cockerels around six months.

I cull based on a individual defects. Whatever is left over I allow to grow out. Whatever is left will be about or probably slightly less than 10% of my original starting number. That's when I look for the balance and make final breeding decisions for the following year.

I start hatching in February with a goal of being done by April. I make my final decisions for next years breeding in January of the new year. My stock is at least 8 months old and could be almost 11. Even though they aren't fully mature its easy to make decisions on potential.

 

[Pensmaster]

I'll get you some actual pics of it later today but this will probably be more beneficial overall. Look at the tail and you'll see the wing tips fall along side the tail not folded over the back in front of the base of the tail.

There are no measurements on this diagram. It's all ratios. When a Cornish is in balance it will follow these ratios. When I went out to select what I was taking to the show I followed this.

Some breeders like the shanks to be on the short side. That's okay as long as the entire bird changes and stays in balance. A large fowl Cornish shouldn't look like it has batam legs and it shouldn't look like a bantam on steroids. View attachment 1553935 Put shorter shanks on my roosters with nothing else changing to keep him in balance and he would not successfully be able to cover a hen.

I suggest you download this pic. It can be difficult to find

Thank you I have and printed and put in barn. I have wondered about the short leg thing. Good to know. With that in mind the one you liked is looking like my best so far. He’s also taller. I have a good hen from a different breeder. Should I mix the two or keep separate.

 

[Fairview01]

Thank you I have and printed and put in barn. I have wondered about the short leg thing. Good to know. With that in mind the one you liked is looking like my best so far. He’s also taller. I have a good hen from a different breeder. Should I mix the two or keep separate.

All LFW Cornish have the same origin so all are related, some more, some less.

What are your goals. If your breeding to and trying to get closer to the SOP then select the best cockerel and 3 or four best pullets. Use them in the first breeding pen next year and eat the rest. Try to hatch at least 60 next year and figure on eating around 50 of those. At the most there will only be about a dozen worth saving and only about half of that will actually be good enough for your second pen.

During the second year the mothers get moved to the second pen containing their best son. The 3 or four best daughters go back to their father. I don't have anymore than that committed to memory but visit Marans of America for rest of this breeding program.

Keep your active breeder numbers small. I like the 2 pen program. With 3 pens I think compromises on quality are made just to fill that third pen. Hatch a ton and cull a ton. Genetics are like roulette. The more numbers played or hatched the more probability of getting a few that are really nice. I have 12 cockerels penned up for processing this coming weekend. Out of 20 cockerels I only have 3 right now that I like. It's all about numbers.

Ill get you some pics. Rained chased me in.