YOU EAT REAL CHICKENS? ARE YOU INSANE??

[appps]

People have been brainwashed by marketing and corporate America in general to believe that food in stores is sanitary and safe, while homemade anything is dirty, unsafe and to be suspected. It is hard to change that. I have given people eggs and had them ask me if they can be eaten. I have a sharp, sarcastic tongue, so I have been known to say, "No, actually, the eggs you get in the stores have been specially treated with a secret method that is known only to the people who have the recipe for Coca Cola, so I am just giving them to you as decoration. Don't eat them!"

It is not their fault. They are the victims of several generations of carpet bombing market. They have been told that food only comes from a store their entire lives, and when they come across someone who challenges that belief, they may react badly.

Yeah I dont actually agree. When was the last time you actually saw advertising aimed at making us believe processed food was better than natural? Rather big corporations say natural is best, push how great and important it is to eat natural and then try and convince us that they, somehow in a way that defies all reason, fit within that natural category

.

To be perfectly honest I think Corporate America is less to blame and Disney should be held accountable

. Go back 100 years and rabbits and chickens and cows and sheep were simply another form of produce. Mindless animals to be eaten with no thought to their well being other than to keep them healthy enough to eat.
Fast forward to the age of TV and Movies and suddenly the same bunnies and chickens and cows and sheeps are living talking animals with personalities and feelings. We have grown up crying when they are hurt, feeling angry at the evil humans who want to eat or kill them and awarding them human emotions and thoughts. And then you go up to someone who has grown up with that and say "Im going to chop this chickens head off and eat it" and wonder why you get that reaction LOL

Suddenly without them even probably realising they are doing it, they have put you in the same class as the bad farmer in "Chicken Run" who killed those poor little chickens that didnt keep laying. its so much easier to eat meat when you have distanced yourself from the reality that it came from the killing of an animal when you pick up a polystyrene tray than when confrounted by a dead chicken staring at you accusingly with those lifeless eyes. Just like smokers turn off the little voice saying its bad for them, we turn off the little voice saying you are eating a dead animal killed just so you could have chicken-pot-pie. So yeah you get surprised and shocked reactions because you have made them suddenly think about something they try so hard not to think about. Doesnt make them stupid or idiotic or any of the other things through this thread. It just makes them normal people brainwashed by a lifetime of Disney movies.

So yeah, my thought is less big business and more Good old Walt Disney has a lot to answer for

 

[Elke Beck]

Yeah I dont actually agree. When was the last time you actually saw advertising aimed at making us believe processed food was better than natural? Rather big corporations say natural is best, push how great and important it is to eat natural and then try and convince us that they, somehow in a way that defies all reason, fit within that natural category

.

To be perfectly honest I think Corporate America is less to blame and Disney should be held accountable

. Go back 100 years and rabbits and chickens and cows and sheep were simply another form of produce. Mindless animals to be eaten with no thought to their well being other than to keep them healthy enough to eat.
Fast forward to the age of TV and Movies and suddenly the same bunnies and chickens and cows and sheeps are living talking animals with personalities and feelings. We have grown up crying when they are hurt, feeling angry at the evil humans who want to eat or kill them and awarding them human emotions and thoughts. And then you go up to someone who has grown up with that and say "Im going to chop this chickens head off and eat it" and wonder why you get that reaction LOL

Suddenly without them even probably realising they are doing it, they have put you in the same class as the bad farmer in "Chicken Run" who killed those poor little chickens that didnt keep laying. its so much easier to eat meat when you have distanced yourself from the reality that it came from the killing of an animal when you pick up a polystyrene tray than when confrounted by a dead chicken staring at you accusingly with those lifeless eyes. Just like smokers turn off the little voice saying its bad for them, we turn off the little voice saying you are eating a dead animal killed just so you could have chicken-pot-pie. So yeah you get surprised and shocked reactions because you have made them suddenly think about something they try so hard not to think about. Doesnt make them stupid or idiotic or any of the other things through this thread. It just makes them normal people brainwashed by a lifetime of Disney movies.

So yeah, my thought is less big business and more Good old Walt Disney has a lot to answer for

Maybe it is just that I am older than you, but I remember when the battle cry was "Better Living Through Chemistry" and when companies advertised that food was sealed for our protection. Companies jumping on the "all natural" band wagon has been a fairly recent thing. 25 - 30 years ago all natural was for hippies, tree huggers and granola munchers - outliers who were not considered to be mainstream America. Euell Gibbons advertising for Grape Nuts was wildly different from the mainstream advertising - "Ever eat a pine tree? Some parts are edible" was a risky tagline that was aimed at aging hippies.

There was a time when children died from contaminated milk, which was why evaporated milk was such a huge invention. There was no longer the risk of Cow Pox or Tuberculosis in the milk because it was sealed up in a sanitary can. Canned foods were considered to be superior to fresh. This goes back to the 1920's. If you look at advertising from the 20's, 30's and 40's, there is a lot of emphasis on the food being clean and safe. The in the 50's and 60's, the focus became easy food to lighten the load of overworked housewives and working mothers.

There has been a lot of marketing put into convincing people that unprocessed foods are inferior to processed foods. It really is not about Disney, because there have been stories about cute animals for thousands of years. Look at Aesop's Fables and Grimm's Fairy Tales, just to name two of hundreds of examples. Disney did not invent cutesy, engaging animals, they just cashed in on it. And people have not just recently been squeamish about killing animals, because you can find through history examples of people who chose to not take lives. Look at the Jains religion in India, which has been around since the 6th century BC, which precludes the killing of living beings, and set ups shelters for decrepit animals.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I killed the first two roosters from my flock yesterday and the reactions from people upon hearing this have been amazing! First they snarl and wrinkle their noses, then they say "really?!" ...as if they can't believe that I would eat a real chicken, one that had been alive!!! One lady was actually afraid that I would get sick! Two people tried to buy them before I killed them, to save their lives. All of these people eat chicken!!! Has the whole world gone crazy? They don't seem to realize that chicken comes from chickens, and they don't seem to mind that the stuff they eat was messily mechanically gutted and soaked in a vat of fecal soup with 500 other mechanically gutted carcasses and absorbed 20% of its body weight from that fecal soup.

They seem appalled that I would eat a chicken that I raised! They would rather some invisible stranger raise them in an invisible place and deliver them in a box, neatly wrapped in buttermilk batter, no questions asked. Has the whole world gone crazy? Are you guys getting this reaction from people as well, or is it only me?

Don't sweat the details, in 50 or so years a more evolutionary stable and sensible people will have replaced all those people you mentioned. The only thing they will leave behind is a hole in the ground from which their grave was plundered and robed. It is only left to be decided from which part of the world these new North American residents will come, and what language they will speak. HAGD Mate.

To answer your question I have heard this, and much more. Next where did you get your "facts" regarding grocery store chicken? If the processing plant fails to use an anti-bacterial wash, to keep you safe from every threat imaginary and real, then the government would shut the chicken plant down, never more to process chickens ever again. :<) Therefor there is no alternative except to suck it up and eat your chicken, soap and all. If anyone offers to buy your poultry again price the pullets @ $100 and the young roosters @ $150 each, cash and carry and see how concerned your friends and coworkers are about chickens' lives. Money talks bull "stuff" walks.

There is a hatchery facility near me that sterilizes every bite of chicken feed they use by exposing the pellets and mash to radiation. Milk in Europe was once pasteurized in this manner. However I can now hear the hew and cry coming out of the mouths of our most ignorant citizens if this method was ever used on the American food supply like it is on the medical instruments used by every doctor in America to save our miserable lives.

 

[offgridhermit]

I only have 8 hens I got as chicks last spring. They have been off laying. I got maybe 1 egg every 3 days, if that. This last week I've been adding vitamins and electrolytes to one of their water dispensers and in the morning when I give them their laying feed I've put a small amount of water on the pellets and then sprinkled it with cayenne pepper. I got 4 eggs today, one the day before and 4 the day before that, and was thrilled.
Next Spring I plan to get a run or 2 of chicks, to raise for meat, and have my neighbor teach me how to butcher for myself. I remember from years ago that homegrown tastes so much better than store bought. My biggest problem is I will be doing it solo. Wish me luck.

 

[BCMaraniac]

I only have 8 hens I got as chicks last spring. They have been off laying. I got maybe 1 egg every 3 days, if that. This last week I've been adding vitamins and electrolytes to one of their water dispensers and in the morning when I give them their laying feed I've put a small amount of water on the pellets and then sprinkled it with cayenne pepper. I got 4 eggs today, one the day before and 4 the day before that, and was thrilled.
Next Spring I plan to get a run or 2 of chicks, to raise for meat, and have my neighbor teach me how to butcher for myself. I remember from years ago that homegrown tastes so much better than store bought. My biggest problem is I will be doing it solo. Wish me luck.

Way to go!! I have some pullets that are laying well. I also have hens that went through their molt.....and some of them are hiding their eggs......I am gonna lock them up over the weekend because it is going to be cold so I can "remind" them where their eggs are supposed to be laid. Hope it works....

 

[ChickenManTN]

... Next where did you get your "facts" regarding grocery store chicken? ...

I regretfully testify before the court that the statements I made shall not be admissible in this case as they all may be considered "hearsay." Had I been under oath I would have more thoroughly researched to determine the validity of the statements, but not having been part of any commercial chicken processing operation myself, any statement that I were to make would still have been considered hearsay, and thus, inadmissible in this court.

With that consideration, the source of the information has not been properly documented as I did not know that my statements would be so closely scrutinized. Most of my information regarding the processing of chicken and other meats has come from articles and documentaries concerning the American food industry, and directly from a friend and coworker who worked for sixteen years as a butcher in a commercial processing facility. If he were to appear before this court his testimony would be completely admissible, but I doubt that it would be believed anyway, considering the nature of some of the responses that I have read.

If I were to launch an exhaustive research and evidence comparison for every statement that I hear or read, I would not be able to hear or read very much of anything. I would still be on page one of that book that gave me the (probably bogus) 20% figure mentioned in the original post. By the way, in retrospect, I do feel quite gullible and embarrassed for believing that detail, considering the significance that 20% actually represents. I'm not going to experiment on this one, because it is easier to change my position and not believe it anymore, but I seriously doubt that soaking a four pound bird in water would yield a five pound bird. If we are going to be so particular about the details, I will not openly state that the suggestion is false, as I have not proven it to be false. I will simply state that I no longer believe it to be true.

May we please adjourn the court now?

With so much drama in the BYC, it's kinda hard being ChickenManTN.

Some of those reactions made me wonder if Tyson and Perdue have PR staff poking around BYC.

Okay moving on...

This thread started as a silly rant, because I was intrigued by the surprising responses that I got when talking about eating my chickens. Thanks to some thoughtful posters it has turned into an interesting conversation. You all have made me think much more deeply about the subject instead of just dismissing people's behavior as crazy. We are all products of our culture. Try as we may to limit its influence, we cannot avoid it.

... Suddenly without them even probably realising they are doing it, they have put you in the same class as the bad farmer in "Chicken Run" who killed those poor little chickens that didnt keep laying. its so much easier to eat meat when you have distanced yourself from the reality that it came from the killing of an animal when you pick up a polystyrene tray than when confrounted by a dead chicken staring at you accusingly with those lifeless eyes. Just like smokers turn off the little voice saying its bad for them, we turn off the little voice saying you are eating a dead animal killed just so you could have chicken-pot-pie. So yeah you get surprised and shocked reactions because you have made them suddenly think about something they try so hard not to think about. Doesnt make them stupid or idiotic or any of the other things through this thread. ...

I really like this response. At first I disagreed with the part about it being something that they "try so hard not to think about." I assumed that it was more a lack of thought than an effort not to think about it. After some more reflection on this, I agree. I believe that it starts out as lack of thinking about it, when very young. Then when a person is old enough to understand, it does become a thought that people actively suppress. I think it then goes back to something that folks just don't think about, but only as a result of that active suppression. I'm reminded of when my brother was about five years old. He quit eating ham for about a year because he learned that it comes from a pig's butt! For the vast majority of people, including me, killing is an unpleasant task. It is something that we have to learn to deal with emotionally. For someone who isn't doing the killing, it is much easier not to think about it. So we get that reaction from people because we put them in a place, mentally, where they did not want to go. We sometimes don't like surprise doses of reality!

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

I regretfully testify before the court that the statements I made shall not be admissible in this case as they all may be considered "hearsay." Had I been under oath I would have more thoroughly researched to determine the validity of the statements, but not having been part of any commercial chicken processing operation myself, any statement that I were to make would still have been considered hearsay, and thus, inadmissible in this court.

With that consideration, the source of the information has not been properly documented as I did not know that my statements would be so closely scrutinized. Most of my information regarding the processing of chicken and other meats has come from articles and documentaries concerning the American food industry, and directly from a friend and coworker who worked for sixteen years as a butcher in a commercial processing facility. If he were to appear before this court his testimony would be completely admissible, but I doubt that it would be believed anyway, considering the nature of some of the responses that I have read.

If I were to launch an exhaustive research and evidence comparison for every statement that I hear or read, I would not be able to hear or read very much of anything. I would still be on page one of that book that gave me the (probably bogus) 20% figure mentioned in the original post. By the way, in retrospect, I do feel quite gullible and embarrassed for believing that detail, considering the significance that 20% actually represents. I'm not going to experiment on this one, because it is easier to change my position and not believe it anymore, but I seriously doubt that soaking a four pound bird in water would yield a five pound bird. If we are going to be so particular about the details, I will not openly state that the suggestion is false, as I have not proven it to be false. I will simply state that I no longer believe it to be true.

May we please adjourn the court now?

With so much drama in the BYC, it's kinda hard being ChickenManTN.

Some of those reactions made me wonder if Tyson and Perdue have PR staff poking around BYC.

Okay moving on...

This thread started as a silly rant, because I was intrigued by the surprising responses that I got when talking about eating my chickens. Thanks to some thoughtful posters it has turned into an interesting conversation. You all have made me think much more deeply about the subject instead of just dismissing people's behavior as crazy. We are all products of our culture. Try as we may to limit its influence, we cannot avoid it.


I really like this response. At first I disagreed with the part about it being something that they "try so hard not to think about." I assumed that it was more a lack of thought than an effort not to think about it. After some more reflection on this, I agree. I believe that it starts out as lack of thinking about it, when very young. Then when a person is old enough to understand, it does become a thought that people actively suppress. I think it then goes back to something that folks just don't think about, but only as a result of that active suppression. I'm reminded of when my brother was about five years old. He quit eating ham for about a year because he learned that it comes from a pig's butt! For the vast majority of people, including me, killing is an unpleasant task. It is something that we have to learn to deal with emotionally. For someone who isn't doing the killing, it is much easier not to think about it. So we get that reaction from people because we put them in a place, mentally, where they did not want to go. We sometimes don't like surprise doses of reality!

Didn't mean to come down on you like a ton of bricks, but let me explain my position. I have worked in the environmental field for many years. It's a field where people often let their emotions hold sway instead of actual science. Remember the big bru ha ha with the Roundup Ready corn killing monarch butterflies some years ago, with environmentalists dressing up like butterflies and protesting at the Monsanto corporate headquarters? Well, turns out that BT corn doesn't kill butterflies. That's why you haven't seen those protests lately. The protesters made themselves look like idiots because they took one flawed research study that didn't come even close to recreating natural circumstances and they ran with it because they didn't like the idea of BT corn and wanted something to protest about. There are some reasons to be concerned about BT corn, but killing Monarch butterflies is not one of those reasons. Because they were working off bad science, their concerns were easily dismissed by the business and farming communities. Had they chosen the focus on something real, then they might have made more headway.

I have spent my life trying to get things DONE for the environment, rather than talking about it or protesting about it. Getting things done means working with the people that have the power--corporations, cities, etc. Dressing up in a butterfly costume and screaming might get me on the news, but wearing a sharp suit and speaking professionally changes minds where it counts--at the top. This also means that I have to have my facts checked and double-checked so that when I meet with corporate bosses or city leaders I'm not dismissed out of hand. The quickest way to get shown the door is to over-state your facts, because if you exaggerate even once, you no longer have credibility.

I believe that there are changes that should be made in the US agricultural system. I also know that our food supply is one of the cheapest and safest in the world. That makes making changes more difficult because by and large, producers are doing a good job. When people throw out exaggerated numbers that simply cannot be believed, it harms the point they are trying to make. Worse, it allows people in positions to do something about the problem to dismiss the problem out of hand and call anyone who speaks up a crank that can't be believed, because we all get painted with the same brush. And that means that even the people who do have the facts can't be heard.

Let me give you an admittedly over-the-top example. I once followed a recipe link to a blog on Paleo eating. Now, I know absolutely nothing about Paleo eating, but I'm firmly convinced that anyone who eats that way is an idiot. Why? Because the author of this blog, that gets thousands and thousands of hits, said this (paraphrasing): This is a great recipe, and even better now that I've made it Paleo by removing the oats from the recipe. After all, we all know that eating oats causes the poop to float in your blood." Now, if there's anyone out there that thinks it's possible that oats make poop float in your blood, let me know and I'll explain basic physiology to you. For the rest of you, I won't insult your intelligence. But see how the crazy statements made by one person who is representing Paleo eating can sour you on the whole thing? After that, I closed the blog and closed my mind. I'm not afraid to admit it. And I think most people are just like me. You make a statement that's so clearly untrue, it drowns out anything you or anyone else says about the subject.

OK, end of lecture/rant. ChickenManTN, you are forgiven, and I'll climb down off the soapbox. For now, because I'm sure I can't stay off it forever.

On the subject of Bambi--my dad has ranted for YEARS that people wouldn't be so squeamish if it weren't for Disney. I was never sure if he was right until about 10 years ago. There's a suburb of Cincinnati, Ohio where they wouldn't allow deer hunting, and when the Division of Wildlife had public meetings basically imploring people to allow a deer harvest in that area, people stood up and used the words (kid you not) "This is not going to be a town where we kill Bambi's mom." Now, if you know anything about wildlife management, you know what happened next. Bambi's mom got together with Bambi's dad, and pretty soon the area around the town was overrun with deer. People's gardens were destroyed, there were lots of deer hit on the road, etc. But that town wouldn't budge. A couple of years after that the deer population was so large that starvation and disease ran rampant, and Bambi was staggering into suburban backyards and dying there. THAT finally got peoples' attention, and they finally allowed DNR to get a whole bunch of hunters to go through those deer herds and thin them out. Then DNR hired a bunch of hunters to shoot birth-control pellets into the does so the population didn't get out of hand again. But the "Bambi Effect" was clearly very real. Chicken Run and Charlotte's Web didn't do farmers any favors, either.

 

[Buster52]

Don't worry about it, ChickenManTN, This is neither a court of law, nor a peer (or even "pear") reviewed journal. This is a discussion forum, where folks spout their formed and sometimes ill-formed opinions without proof or documentation of any type all the time. Suffice to say that there is plenty of literature out there that confirm much of what we are talking about, and I'm sure you could reference what you need to if it is required.

Which certainly beats some anonymous poster on an Internet discussion forum stating "I saw this or that" or "There's a big farm down the street that doesn't do it that way" or "My buddy Joe Shmoe told me..." particularly when there is ample evidence in print media (including attributable books, articles, and journals) to the contrary.

I grow my own and sell to my community based on that information I have come across in many many books and articles, not the expressed opinions of folks here. And that is how (and why) we are changing the way America eats, not by buying the crap (literally and figuratively) the corporate food industry is trying to shove down our throats.

 

[Triple Willow]

I regretfully testify before the court that the statements I made shall not be admissible in this case as they all may be considered "hearsay." Had I been under oath I would have more thoroughly researched to determine the validity of the statements, but not having been part of any commercial chicken processing operation myself, any statement that I were to make would still have been considered hearsay, and thus, inadmissible in this court.

With that consideration, the source of the information has not been properly documented as I did not know that my statements would be so closely scrutinized. Most of my information regarding the processing of chicken and other meats has come from articles and documentaries concerning the American food industry, and directly from a friend and coworker who worked for sixteen years as a butcher in a commercial processing facility. If he were to appear before this court his testimony would be completely admissible, but I doubt that it would be believed anyway, considering the nature of some of the responses that I have read.

If I were to launch an exhaustive research and evidence comparison for every statement that I hear or read, I would not be able to hear or read very much of anything. I would still be on page one of that book that gave me the (probably bogus) 20% figure mentioned in the original post. By the way, in retrospect, I do feel quite gullible and embarrassed for believing that detail, considering the significance that 20% actually represents. I'm not going to experiment on this one, because it is easier to change my position and not believe it anymore, but I seriously doubt that soaking a four pound bird in water would yield a five pound bird. If we are going to be so particular about the details, I will not openly state that the suggestion is false, as I have not proven it to be false. I will simply state that I no longer believe it to be true.

May we please adjourn the court now?

With so much drama in the BYC, it's kinda hard being ChickenManTN.

Some of those reactions made me wonder if Tyson and Perdue have PR staff poking around BYC. 

I don't doubt that last statement at all.

Having personally worked at one of those commercial processing facilities, let me be your eye witness. Of course I am sure that most people won't believe me either but whatever, people believe what they want to. Your statement about the fecal soup bath, 20% water weight gain and 500 birds in a vat is not that far fetched.

First off, yes there is fecal residue in the vat (actually two HUGE stainless steel chillers - a pre-chiller and a second chiller) which have huge paddles that push the birds through the cold water of the first chiller into the next chiller then out on a conveyor where they are re-hung on a conveyor drip line to remove some of the water they absorbed. Government inspectors take a sample of those birds just before they enter the first chiller, weight them and tag them with a number. I forgot how long they are in the chillers, over an hour. When the birds come out of the second chiller workers set aside the tagged birds and the government inspector weighs them again to see how much water weight they have gained. The longer they are in the water the more weight they gain so it is all closely timed. Of course they want the birds cold and weight gain of any kind equals dollars. I can't remember the rules on percentage of water gain that was allowed but there is water weight gained from water that YES has some fecal contamination in it. Where did that fecal contamination come from you ask? It happens all the time during processing. Those birds are ran past employees and inspectors so fast that it is impossible to see and deal with it all so some does get by them. Somewhere aroud 35 birds PER MINUTE are inspected inside and out for contamination, disease and any kind of mutilation (tears, bruising, etc). Even if the employees and inspectors are really paying close attention it is humanly impossible to catch everything. (And have you ever seen anybody half-way do their job? Reckon that ever happens?) Yes they have machines that wash the birds (with chlorine) past the point of inspection but those machines do not get 100% of the contamination out either. So, say... 9 inspection stations running at one time at approximately 35 birds per minute, that's over 300 birds dropping into the first chiller per minute for their communal bath. They stay in there over an hour so, that's over 18,000 chickens in the chillers (vats) at one time. But it gets better than that... that SAME WATER is used all day long AND it is used for the second shift at the processing plant - so 16-18 hours of 300 birds per minute dropping in those chillers and depending on the size of the plant and how many chickens they are running, the chillers might be bigger and have even more birds dropping in per minute. I remember one plant that had a chiller room bigger than my house. You would have to climb to the top of at least a 10 foot ladder to look down inside the chillers. The company knows that contamination is missed so what is their backup plan? Chlorine. The percent chlorine in the chillers has to be monitored by inspectors too and yep it does get too high at times. I believe chlorine is used in all the water throughout the processing plant. Sometimes there is so much chlorine in the water that you can taste it in the air.

So no, what ChickenMan said is not really too far off base at all.

 

[marmca]

I think anyone that can't kill for their meat should be a vegetarian.

A lot of folks in my area are. Why it is so easy to go vegetarian periodically.