hepl me diagnose my red star hen's condition please-added poop pics

Kelly FG

Songster
13 Years
Jan 13, 2007
376
1
163
Ridge
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Here is the story of my girl Olivia, She is 3 years 4 months old, She's a red star from MM. She started laying at 5.5 months and laid an egg almost every single day for two straight years. Then about 5-6 eggs a week after that. She is at the bottom of the pecking order, she has always enjoyed hanging out with us or the dog better than the rest of the flock. She sleeps alone either on the coop floor, in a nest or on the perch outside the nest. She is small, but usually eats well and she is usually very energetic.
Now here's the problem-
She has not layed an egg in about 6 months, about 2 months ago she started going in the coop by herself in the late afternoon and staying in all night. Before she stopped laying she did have a few soft shells and I even had to remove one that was half in and out, but after that she was fine. I've noticed she seems really lethargic for about 1 month, today she spent most of the day out in the middle of the yard standing by herself with her eyes closed-obviously very weird. her "sisters" were all walking very close to her & she didn't open her eyes or move at all. She stands with her head and tail down. She doesn't seem interested in treats although I did see her eat some blueberries today & I also saw her drink. I have not seen her poop, but it seems it might be a tad runny because she's got a little bit of poop stains on her backside. I have not seen her preen or dustbathe in days. Right now she's on my lap slepping and I can move her any which way & she does not object at all.
Her vent appears ok, her comb & wattles are red & healthy looking, up till a few days ago her eyes looked bright, now she looks out of it, her feet are clean and healthy & she has no odor or discharge coming from anywhere, her crop is soft and feels pretty empty, her breathing is silent, no gasping, sneezing or gurgling, her feathers look normal, none of the flock have mites or worms.
I've checked the trusty list of poultry diseases and honestly nothing matches her symptoms exactly.
I'm sort of feeling she might be in the late stages of ovarian cancer.
If anyone has any insight on this condition or suggestions to get her better or at the very least make the end of her life as pleasant as possible, I'd sure appreciate it. She's a real sweet girl and I don't want her to suffer.
Thanks

edited to add-I just saw her poop and it was light green liquid
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Oh, gosh, I wish I at least had a guess of something to do/try for you. She sounds so sweet and you obviously care for her a great deal. It does sound like something is wrong, but I don't have a guess what it could be, sorry. Hopefully someone else will come along that knows much more than I do.
 
I wish I knew what was wrong but I don't. If she were mine I would separate her in case she does have something that is contageous. She might benefit from being alone poor girl. I would give her food and water and give her little treats like scrambled egg to stimulate her appetite. I would also give a little plain yogurt to see if her poop consistency improves. Her "tummy" might be off. If she doesn't like the yogurt (mine don't) mix about a teaspoon with a few Cheerios. Mine love it this way. Give a teaspoon a day for a week and see if there is any improvement.

She might just be feeling out of sorts and needs rest and TLC. If she is ill additional symptoms will show themselves.

Why do you think it is cancer? If that is a question that is too hard to answer now just ignore it.

You love her very much and you are taking wonderful care of her. I know she appreciates it very much. Sending good thoughts your way.
 
Have you had a fecal egg count done to make sure she doesn't have worms? As an ex vet tech, I can tell you that checking the feces alone isn't the way you tell. As a long time poultry owner, I can also tell you that chickens rarely shed worms even if they have them. And there are many types of worms - not all in the rear of the digestive tract; many up towards the front that are just as devestating and nutrition stealing.

Just a heads up. I'd hate for you to assume based on no worms in the droppings. If there's another reason, please let us know so that we can be confident, too, and rule worms out.

I'm a little curious about your feeding program, the calcium, etc since your instincts are connecting this to laying. I'm going to ask you a few questions and then ask you to do something to rule something out for us, please, if you don't mind.

First, what does she eat - all of her diet including treats? Does she have and has she had oyster shell available to her this last two years? Has she been wormed within the last 4 months, and if so with what? Do you have any plain yogurt or probiotics at the house? Would you describe her green liquid dropping as frothy? Does she have access to pond water, algea water, or run off from livestock? Did the green liquid dropping smell particularly worse than usual? Were most of her other droppings normal (other than the cecal poops)?

I, too, would recommend that for her digestive upset (or possibly just the imbalance from getting nice fresh berries in the summer) I would give her some live-bacteria plain yogurt. Mine love the mashed yolk of a boiled egg - and it's a lovely place to sneak yogurt in (though many of mine love plain yogurt on its own). 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon, not much more. You could also use a little cooked yogurt to hide yogurt or mix together as a treat. That might also firm up her droppings as well as the good live bacteria in the yogurt helping to get her own bacterial colony back strong and in balance.

I'd keep her separate so that you can make sure she eats and drinks and examine her droppings. Also, did you feel any excess lumpiness or fattiness around her abdomen (if you feel very delicately)? Do you feel any loss of weight?

I'd like to see a calcium deficiency and resulting soft shelled eggs or internal laying ruled out. But calcium absorbtion isn't always about calcium. More often it's hindered by an excess of phosphorus (from too many grains) or a lack of D3 or sunshine. And of course, the calcium in laying feeds is the minimum for a healthy laying flock; many hens actually can need much more (more like 10:1 rather than the 2:1 cal/phos balance). That's why the offering of oyster shell (rather than egg shells) or of limestone because the lime/calcium helps those hens who need a bit more.

I hope that she doesn't have a cancer, and I hope that with a little more investigating and this way of boosting her nutrition in the mean time that hopefully we can figure out what's bothering your sweet girl and get her back on the road to health.

It's obvious that she's very loved.
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So we'll do our best.
 
can you feel eggs inside her in the shoot, so to speak? It sounds so much like internal laying...especially after reading her soft shell problem. she is an old gal for a hatchery bird.

Take a stool sample to a vet for a fecal float and see if she has parasites. Good luck wiht her.
 
in addition to the above (especially the worming > if you have never wormed her then I would do so immediately and with a broad spectrum wormer such as ivomec Eprinex or Valbazen(albendazol) which you can get from First State Vet Supply:
http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store/index.php?cPath=23

I want to ask you if your bird has undergone a complete molt yet?
> someitmes they dont and one has to "help them along" > high production birds need to undergo a molt around 2.5/3 yrs of age and sometimes they dont .
I would also suggest a good supplement like aviacharge 2000 (available to purchase online from McMurry or Stromberg) as a general support measure
 
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Thank you all for your replies and great knowledge, I don't know what I'd do without BYC.
To answer a few questions I have never wormed my flock. I had their stool tested once by a local vet and it came back parasite free. None of the other girls are showing any symptoms at all thankfully. Olivia's diet is mostly organic layer crumble, free choice oyster shells, leftover organic veggies, some corn as treats, once in a while sunflower seeds and oats. I add wheat germ to their food and I give them yogurt about once a week. Olivia's favorite special treat is cheese, she normally jumps about 2 feet in the air for a nibble of cheese. They always have clean water but we do have a small pond that is a little mucky, I Never see any of the flock drinking from it.
Since I started this post I did notice that Olivia is incredibly thirsty while she is not interested in food( even the yogurt I tried giving her this morning) she drank a small bowl of water in a short while. She actually drank it while laying Down. She seems really sleepy.I have avia charge, I'll add it to her water. She is doing a good job of staying away from everyone, she realized the deck is a nice private place to hang out.
The liquid poop was probably less stinky than usual and it had no frothiness or bubbles.
I am going to try to collect it and bring it to the vet.
As for the moult, come think of it she did not moult with her sisters either time. She stayed busy laying eggs while they all took time off to moult LOL.
If I think of anything else I'll let you know, please keep the suggestions coming.
 
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Dlhunicorn gives wonderful advice. I really do think that worming would be a good idea. I personally do it twice a year (and more natural stuff inbetween in hopes that it does control the situation between wormings) to keep parasites in control. They're tricky to find without a fecal egg count done regularly. If you do those (a wonderful idea, and I'm very glad to hear that you had that done) get that done twice a year in place of the worming if you'd rather be more chemical-free. Or get it now again before worming if you want to know for sure.
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Both the wormers dlhunicorn recommended are really some of the best you can get.

her diet sounds wonderful. The pond might be something to watch, but giving the yogurt weekly goes a long way to helping her digestive system to overcome most things she encounters. Watch the pond, however, if it gets pretty low or more mucky.

On the drinking - other than heat (a factor), sometimes birds (and other creatures) will drink way more than usual if they have a little bacterial issue going on in their digestive tract. Or if they're getting excessive salts from something in their environment, etc.

Since she's not eating, I'm glad you have the avia-charge and would give it as labeled. Hopefully that'll give her some fuel to eat (and nourish her more while she's not). But try dampened crumbles, egg yolk, whatever you can to see if you can tempt her to eat.

And I'm very very glad to hear you'll be taking the fecal sample to the vet. If she gives antibiotics, see if you can ask her (if you can budget it) to do a Culture and Sensitivity to find out if there's a bacteria exactly what it is and exactly what treats it. I had a bird who had a clostridium infection once - the vet sent us home with the wrong antibiotic. Thankfully, while I was literally walking out the door, I asked the vet "you DID do a C&S yes?" She said "No but that's a wonderful idea!" She took a fecal sample and it turned out that the antibiotic she gave (the usually ever-useful baytril) wouldn't at all have worked for the bacteria my bird had. So that $60 test actually saved me heartache and money. And this was a top-ranked nationally known avian vet. They're good, but they're not psychic.
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So ask for the C&S if you can. She can do it off the fecal sample it it's fresh - or if you bring the bird in (not even for an exam) so that you know the sample is just dropped.

I write stuff like this down when I'm going to the vet so I don't forget in the business of the moment.

And interesting about the molt - she was a GOOD hen! lol! That's the ones that the old timers said were keepers.
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So all the more reason to get that girl healthy.

Please let us know how it goes, if you don't mind.
 
Ok so there has been a change in the poop
here is yesterday-green liquid
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today-much thicker & very dark
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She has not eaten anything today and she went inside the nestbox in the coop around 11am & stayed there all day till bedtime.
Here's a picture of her yesterday-notice the cheese & bread-favorite snacks-she didn't touch them.
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I'm bringing a stool sample in the AM, the vet won't be in till wednesday to read the results.
 
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When you feel her underside, does it feel kind of tight like a water balloon? It's supposed to feel kind of soft under there. My hens with peritonitis feel tight on their undersides kind of between their legs. Other than not laying, they didn't really have any other physical symptoms for weeks....
 

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