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The info about the susquehanna is very cool - thanks!!!! As for the definition of pagan: does pagan still cover ALL polytheistic religions today?? Would you call Hindis pagan?? I would not have, but I am open to the idea.

I have read the Stark book. At one point the local school district was arguing evolution and it was cited as a reference. I have read the bible the Q'ran (but not the Hadith), the book of Mormon, the Scientology book - it just was called scientology - I will read any book that is important to...

You guys have been doing a good job! Really! Most people are trying to learn and are willing - above all else- to admit that what we know is that we do not know it all. No matter how we slice and dice it, no matter how many books you swear you have read they were all written by people. And...

That's why I want to get my hands on the book! I love reading anything which challenges what I "think" I know!!! I always challenge my students to make me change my mind! Show me I am wrong! They do way more research trying to prove me wrong than they would on the subjects otherwise!!

Really wanna get a group of people going?? Tell 'em Charles Darwin never said "survival of the fittest!" He didn't!

Quote: Certainly, not offended, but would LOVE to know the title of a book that manages to find THAT provable. Christianity really held back the flourishing of science especially mathematics during the Dark ages and destroyed a huge percentage of the world's accumulated knowledge in the...

Quote: I agree. Me too. People often ask me if I know the origins of some traditions or holidays that don't jibe with my spiritual beliefs or were not as nice as they are now, then why do I still do them...... Meanings of words and actions change over time. Once upon a time you held out...

Religious tolerance .org is one of my favorite sites!! I always ask people if they know why they drag a dying tree into their houses to celebrate christmas. Most don't know. An then when they learn the convoluted means by which things become tradition!! Like recently there has been a sharp...

When referring to patriarchal vs matriarchal societies there are many ways that society can be assessed. While the Romans were patriarchal and women did not have too much say, they did worship female entities and as such gave quite a bit of power to women. Like many societies it is not so...

Oh yeah the basic principles are different simply due to the monotheism vs poly or pantheism issue. No getting past that. Heirerarchical issues etc etc..... But, add candles and ritualistic recitations and movements, even (potential dogma bomb here not meant to provoke) the polytheistic...

Have you ever read or heard any John McWhorter? He is a great linguist who makes amazingly detailed lectures that really keep you interested. He tracks the travel of certain words and shows how they show the extension of trade and intermarriage Cool stuff.

I am with you guys! My avocation is sociology and comparative religion. When I say Catholicism is the most pagan I am speaking exactly as Happy Mtn says. Because it is so old and made so many accommodations to the existing religions in the cultures it converted it retain a great deal of local...

Quote: Or more like a "rebirth" of it. The Native Americans (and lots of others) were very in tune with the earth. We get alot of lumber for our business from a Cherokee decendant that still uses sustainable harvesting practices that his grandfather taught him. As for Catholicism- there are...

Debi is correct about some Catholic priests trying to incorporate some local beliefs into their traditions at mass and other events. IMHO catholocism is the most pagan of the modern versions of christianity. Lots of mysticism and ritual...... The midwife issue is a completely different...

Pagan used to mean "country folk", as in those uneducated or unsophisticated. It was a pejorative and as such was used to make fun of country folk who still believed in earth-based gods goddesses or other spiritual beliefs. This was , of course, after many of the areas that considered...