5 day old chick, multiple symptoms listed in post, advice request

[raroo]

I currently have a brood of 26 five day old white rock chicks.

The chicks are being housed in a 3ft X 4ft plywood brooder, all behaviors indicate temperature is good, no crowding around heat source, chicks are evenly distributed throughout the brooder. Heat source is a brooder lamp.

Bedding is pine shavings.

Chicks are being fed 22% non medicated starter. All chicks are eating and drinking on their own.

They have been vaccinated for Mareks and Coccidiosis. (The hatchery stressed not to feed a medicated starter if vaccinated for coccidiosis)

Everyone is acting, eating, drinking, and pooping normal except for one chick.

The affected chick is usually standing, sometimes sitting, seeks out the warmest areas, usually right under the lamp or amongst a group of sleeping chicks.
When he stands he keeps his face upturned, eyes closed, wings drooped down, puffed up, and gasps little open beaked breaths. He is unresponsive to the activity around him, sometimes stumbles, droops his head down, then jerks it back up and continues gasping. Sometimes he sinks slowly down and then lays with his neck stretched out, continuing the little gasping breaths. There is no wheezing or rattling sound to be heard.

He will sometimes walk to the feeder and take a few half hearted pecks but doesn't really eat. He is also not interested in drinking.

No runny poo, his vent is clear and his bum is clean. After several lengthly observations I haven't seen him poo at all.

When held he peeps in protest. I dipped his beak in water with a bit of sugar, and he struggled and refused to drink. He lets the water drip off his beak instead of drinking it.
I offered him a little plain probiotic yogurt mixed with his crumbles, he is not interested.
So far I have not separated him from the others. He has been acting this way for roughly 24 hours now, and doesn't appear to be getting any worse or better.
None of the other chicks are showing these symptoms.

I am wondering if anyone is familiar with his symptoms. I've referenced my chicken health handbook and nothing really seems to fit.
There is no diarreah or bloody poo to indicate coccidiosis.
It can't be a vitamin deficiency as they are being fed a balanced starter ration, and other chicks would be showing these symptoms too if that were the case.
I have been keeping their brooder, feed and water clean.
They are being housed separately from my older birds.
There has never been other chicks raised in their brooder before.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[san415]

sorry about the chick, does he sneeze at all? or shake his head?

 

[raroo]

No, there isn't any sneezing or head shaking going on. He seems to be doing a bit better actually. I saw him eat with more interest, and take a few drinks too. His crop has gotten fuller. He is also showing a bit more interest in what the chicks around him are doing too. Even pecked at the ground with a few of them. Typical for improvement to show after I post asking for advice.

I just hope the little booger gets better, there doesn't seem to be much I can do, since he is eating and drinking OK.
But if anyone has any ideas as to what his ailment has been I'd still love to know!

 

[robin416]

If it were mine I would give it some pedialyte. I would also pull it out of the brooder several times a day and hand feed it moistened feed. It needs a boost and at this point its too weak to battle the other stronger babies for space.

 

[raroo]

Well we have another chick who is showing the same symptoms. It looks like there is probably something going around. This isn't falling under the normal diseases chicks this young will get. I'm wondering if it isn't something transmitted from the hatchery hen through the eggs. In hindsight bias, I'm kicking myself. The reason why we have white rocks instead of the barred rocks we originally wanted is because the barred rock hens did not produce enough eggs (as in only a couple hundred when there should have been a couple thousand). It is obvious to me now that extremely low drop in egg production is a sign of disease. I felt odd about what they said about the hens not producing enough eggs, but obviously didn't clue in as to what sounds wrong about it. I was under the false security that a hatchery wouldn't knowingly sell chicks if a disease is going through their birds. Given, I am jumping to conclusions at the moment but I am suspicious.
We are looking into getting a necropsy done on one of the affected chicks. I don't want to take any chances of having a diseased flock, and after further reading their symptoms do strongly resemble a serious reportable egg transmitted disease. These are the symptoms listed for paratyphoid:
in chicks up to five weeks old... depression, weakness, poor growth, decreased appetite... "chirping" or "peeping" sounds, huddling around heat with feathers ruffled, eyes closed, head down, wings drooping... in adult carriers, ... reduced egg production
The symptoms match what my chicks are experiencing, and the reduced egg production matches what happened at the hatchery.
I sincerely hope I'm just being paranoid, in any case I'm getting the necropsy done as these symptoms match too close for my comfort. As well, if my chicks have something serious as a result of the hatchery there is no way they are going to get away with it.
Forgive my early AM paranoid ramblings... here's hoping that I'm being paranoid over nothing.

 

[threehorses]

Just to clarify - it could technically be a vitamin deficiency (feeds degrade, sometimes birds come with a deficiency from bad breeder feeding, etc) but it doesn't sound very much like one. Not primarily; possible secondary to something else.

To me, I'm really concerned about it not eating or drinking - did you see it do so before? I've had some do this on day five when they're weak from not eating. (days 1-3 they don't HAVE to, day 4 they do, and by day 5 they're weak).

Try wetting his crumbles and letting them sit til just damp (about 10 minutes) or offering some egg yolk from a boiled/mashed egg. Or make a powder out of oatmeal (in the food processor) and mix with a little water and egg yolk, a little karo or honey, and give that to him as a little water. Rather than straight sugar, the yolk in it gives him more nutrition and hopefully a little more fuel.

It could just be a weak chick as sometimes happens, and/or possibly one case of a little respiratory thing. But I'd most highly suspect just a lack of good nutrients.

Also another thing to watch for is that all the birds are getting adequate food. That many chicks, and the stronger chicks tend to eat, the middles go next, and by the time the meek chicks get around to it the stronger ones are hungry again. I do like to separate larger batches into one large group and then a smaller group of the weaker chicks so that they can catch up.

That being said, I think it would highly reommended that you a) get the hatchery to send you a copy of their NPIP certification, b) get necropsies on the chicks (chill them in the refrigerator - do not freeze), possibly c) take an ill one in for necropsy and testing before it passes (this depends on how your guys do it there),e tc. Especially because you have so many. Really it's about peace of mind. Worry is stressful and bad for your health. Not knowing is also stressful and bad for the chicks' health.

In the mean time, I would feed all the babies a yogurt treat daily for a week and then back it off to once weekly since you're using non medicated feed.You won't interfere with the coccidiosis vaccination and will simply enhance their vigor and resistance to disease.

 

[raroo]

Thanks for your reply. We are looking into getting a necropsy done. This morning, there are a few more chicks now who are showing the same symptoms.
The thing about their feed, is that there is no competition for feeder space. I have two long trough style feeders, each with enough room to feed 27 chicks at a time. For the first day we kept the tops open so they could easily know where the feed is, and once we were sure we closed the feeders and watched and made sure they all knew how to eat from the individual spaces. Most of the time there is a large group feeding on one of the feeders, and the other feeder remains mostly free. I've noticed that the quieter chicks tend to use one feeder, the more boisterous chicks like to eat together at the other one. There is more than enough feeder space for each chick to be eating at the exact same time. When we first put the chicks in the brooder we made sure they knew how to eat and that they were eating. I'm positive each chick was eating as they started out with very flat empty crops, and after just a few hours each chick had a full crop. (from eating feed, not shavings).
See, the chicks are not crowded. They have a 4 foot by 3 foot brooder, there is lots of room for them to move around freely, and its very easy to observe them properly. There's no competition for space, and quieter chicks can easily escape the crowd and form a little group of their own, and eat at the less popular feeder.
As for the chick who is showing symptoms, yesterday afternoon and this morning I did notice that he ate more readily than he had before. He appears to be improving, but now there are several other chicks who are now showing the same symptoms. I did give everyone some yogurt mixed with crumbles yesterday, I will give them more today, too.
In any case, I'll make a little brooder for the sick chicks and give them some power food to see if that helps.

 

[robin416]

Being just five days old and having gone through the trauma of shipping it possible the smaller weaker chicks are having a tougher time recovering. Try the extra support and see what happens. Separating the smaller, weaker chicks is a very good idea.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Well if you have a second feeder, that usually isn't something others do - and now you see why it was a good move - because of the little groups. Good move. And I didn't think they sounded crowded - just I know how little chick bullies can be. They just are active and rowdy and the more meek ones will avoid going up to the feeders (IF there were one) because I suppose they just get tired of it. I still think two brooders might be a good idea since the others are now getting the same symptoms. Perhaps a little mental separation for them might do the trick, and give them a chance to catch up. But I'm particularly relieved to hear that you'll be getting necropsies. They're such an incredible peace of mind way to do things. And for their slight cost, they can really save money in the long run!