5 day old seemingly healthy chicks die in brooder - mushy chick?

[pinkl72]

I hatched 20 perfectly healthy baby chicks aside from one with curled toes which appears to be improving without intervention and one with spraddle leg which I have taped with vet wrap and is doing better. One didn't make it out of shell well and died while still in the incubator but it's not counted in the 20.

This hatch had a longer than usual hatch window (maybe 2 days). I'm using a GQF Model 1270 circulated air incubator. Temp 98.5F and humidity ranged from 40-50%. My hatch rates have been declining so I tried opening the intake air valves more but it didn't seem to improve. 21 eggs out of roughly 85 eggs hatched. Some of the eggs were aged and stored at room temp so I'm sure that accounts for some of the poor (very poor) hatch rate.

The incubator was thoroughly cleaned with bleach before this batch. I use new rubbery shelf liner in the bottom of the baskets.

Today is day 4-5 and I found very healthy looking and acting chicks dead in the brooder . They have a spot at the umbilical that is like a scab but I've seen it before on healthy chicks that dont die. They each are kinda smelly like soury death (I'm sorry but I can't think of a better way to describe it ), but I don't know if its just from them being deceased. They have only been dead less than 2 hours and aren't completely stiff. Ive never noticed the smell with other deceased chicks, but I also don't routinely smell them. Today happens to be hot and humid and I got a whiff . Sorry for the graphic description, but I'm hoping someone will have some insight.

I have never dealt with mushy chick but from what I read, its caused mostly from unsanitary hatching conditions, and I cleaned and sanitized my incubator so thoroughly before this batch. Some of the eggs are slightly dirty from coming out of a nesting box in the summer, but I've read so much conflicting info on cleaning eggs, the very most I do is dry rub them if necessary. The eggs are dirty with dirt, grass, or straw only, not chicken droppings. I pick off the grass and straw but it usually leaves a stain behind.

I'll attach pictures of the umbilical area. When taking the pictures, the umbilical spot did seem like a bigger scab than what I've witnessed before, but I don't normally examine the area so I can't say it's never happened before.

Any and all help, insight, or advice is appreciated.

 

[Debbie292d]

We've hatched over two-week-old eggs before, some right out of the fridge. If I'm holding the eggs, though, I store them in the basement, where it's around 60F. They are in a carton with a bag of rice (they're on a shelf with my dry goods, so use whatever you have handy to raise one end) under one end, and I alternate which end every time I add eggs to the carton(s). These ideas may help your hatch rate a bit.

Your longer hatch time is because your temp was 98.5 instead of the recommended 99.5, but that shouldn't cause harm to them as it's within the acceptable parameters.

As for the "umbilical cord," that doesn't look unusual to me. Some could look larger, but that's usually resolved within hours.

As for the smell, you said roughly 21 eggs out of 85 hatched. I recently found out what a rotten duck egg smells like as I couldn't candle them, so whatever was no good had to stay in there, unbeknownst to me, until a couple smelled. By the way, those were the dirtiest eggs I've ever seen. They came from my farmer neighbor who has her ducks in a pen so these eggs were laying in the dung and mush. All I could do is softly dab off what I could, then when they dried a used the back of a knife and scraped what I could. One out of five hatched, so was that because they were so filthy? I don't know, but my point is, I also had chicken eggs in there hatching with those filthy eggs and got 13/14 of those, so dirty incubator didn't stop them from hatching.

I'm confused if you lost some that hatched in the incubator and then 4-5 days later in the brooder? If some died in the incubator, it could be that rubber shelf liner. We use it too but wash and dry it just like you would the rest of your laundry except unscented drier sheets. For those you lost on day 4-5 in the brooder, and you're doing the suggested 95F with area for them to get away from the heat, then it could be just "failure to thrive" perhaps. It's a bit young for them to have cocci, but I've heard of it.

I used to give mine Sav-A-Chick electrolytes/probiotics on Day 2 until a breeder I met in person a few weeks ago got me onto Hydro Hen for her chicks and her old chickens.

I'll see what you think of my ideas as I'm no expert but just been doing this for quite some time now.

 

[pinkl72]

Your longer hatch time is because your temp was 98.5 instead of the recommended 99.5, but that shouldn't cause harm to them as it's within the acceptable parameters.

I'll turn it up and see what happens.

I'm confused if you lost some that hatched in the incubator and then 4-5 days later in the brooder? If some died in the incubator, it could be that rubber shelf liner. We use it too but wash and dry it just like you would the rest of your laundry except unscented drier sheets.

They hatched fine in the incubator. They were transferred to the brooder once dry and fluffy -around 24hours. They lived for 4-5 days total and then perished while in the brooder.

The shelf liner is brand new so I didn't see it being a cause for significant contamination but I can sanitize it in the future. Putting it in the washer is a great idea! I've been handwashing and mostly throwing it out but will definitely be doing that next time.

For those you lost on day 4-5 in the brooder, and you're doing the suggested 95F with area for them to get away from the heat, then it could be just "failure to thrive" perhaps. It's a bit young for them to have cocci, but I've heard of it.

Yes, temp seems good in brooder - chicks moving happily about. Everyone is taking to the food and water. They haven't had any access to outside so I didn't think cocci was an option but I could be thinking of the wrong disease.

I used to give mine Sav-A-Chick electrolytes/probiotics on Day 2 until a breeder I met in person a few weeks ago got me onto Hydro Hen for her chicks and her old chickens.

I normally give nutridrench or poultry cell, pedialyte, and/or probiotics to chicks I get from the feed stores, but I normally don't have issues with chicks I hatch at home. I can certainly start giving them a boost too. Is there something particular you like about hydro hen?

Thanks so much for your input!

 

[Debbie292d]

Is there something particular you like about hydro hen?

No, just that the silkie breeder who wins awards on her show silkies told me that's all she uses. I too have poultry cell and nutradrench and I've put a couple of drops in their water of that a time or two their first week as well. I think it's good to alternate fresh first day, electrolytes/probiotics for a day, then fresh for another day, then vitamins for a day, back to fresh again. Some insert a day of ACV water too, but I usually wait to do that after they're a week old, but nothing hurts, nothing is in stone for what is best, and anything we do can only help.

 

[BastyPutt]

The incubator was thoroughly cleaned with bleach

There is a lot going here and you're getting some great tips - but I wanted to touch on this for a second.

An incubator has a lot of good bacteria happening. The problem with bleach is it kills ALL bacteria, good and bad. It might be worth it to try a less potent cleaner in there in between hatches - perhaps even an organic or natural type.

Sounds like you don't have much to lose at his point. But stick with it! I'm sure you'll crack the case.

 

[pinkl72]

There is a lot going here and you're getting some great tips - but I wanted to touch on this for a second.

An incubator has a lot of good bacteria happening. The problem with bleach is it kills ALL bacteria, good and bad. It might be worth it to try a less potent cleaner in there in between hatches - perhaps even an organic or natural type.

Sounds like you don't have much to lose at his point. But stick with it! I'm sure you'll crack the case.

Do you recommend anything?

This was the first time I cleaned and sanitized it like that. I normally just empty it out, vacuum it, and replace the shelf liner my hatch rate began to decline and I lost several chicks from the previous batch and thought maybe I had a case of brooder pneumonia. So I nuked it. This time is different. For one, the chicks are dying younger. Last time they died at about 2 weeks. For another, the chicks seem healthy then dead. Last time there was lethargy and noticeably an issue and intervention before they died. Thirdly, I didn't notice a smell, but again, I don't normally smell them

 

[BastyPutt]

Do you recommend anything?

This was the first time I cleaned and sanitized it like that. I normally just empty it out, vacuum it, and replace the shelf liner my hatch rate began to decline and I lost several chicks from the previous batch and thought maybe I had a case of brooder pneumonia. So I nuked it. This time is different. For one, the chicks are dying younger. Last time they died at about 2 weeks. For another, the chicks seem healthy then dead. Last time there was lethargy and noticeably an issue and intervention before they died. Thirdly, I didn't notice a smell, but again, I don't normally smell them

We use a cleaner called "thieves". But my wife is part of something that allows us to get it as part of some (most likely pyramid scheme) subscription. But I do know that we have been using it for years and it works really, really good on everything but glass.

I know green works and other cleaners have alternatives. But no, I'm not familiar with a bunch of different green cleaners.

 

[Debbie292d]

There is a lot going here and you're getting some great tips - but I wanted to touch on this for a second.

An incubator has a lot of good bacteria happening. The problem with bleach is it kills ALL bacteria, good and bad. It might be worth it to try a less potent cleaner in there in between hatches - perhaps even an organic or natural type.

Sounds like you don't have much to lose at his point. But stick with it! I'm sure you'll crack the case.

The NR360 I take to the sink, use soap and water, and pick out all the eggshell pieces. After it's rinsed and dried, I spray it lightly with Lysol and let it dry. I also only use distilled water in both that one and the Brinsea. I've been doing that for dozens of successful hatches.