How do I go about it? I imagine I add it to the chickens' feed, but for how many consecutive days? How much per chicken? Do you find it an effective way of controlling worms? Thanks.
A Question about deworming with DE
- Thread starter Pupsnpullets
- Start date
Quote:
DE isn't a deworming agent. It's used to hopefully decrease numbers of parasites in the environment and gut so that deworming isn't necessary as often.
ON its own it's not an effective method of controlling parasite populations (as remember it only effects certain things in the gut, never the parasites in the airway, lungs, etc). Used in conjunction with other methods it can be useful for sure.
First, never ever use anything other than "food grade" DE. Never garden or pool DE as it's not as fine and can be dangerous to the bird.
In the feed, use 2% or less total food weight and you must use every day. Cease to use if the bird ever has an irritated digestive tract. Do not EVER use on the bird. Mix in well with the feed. Additionally you can sprinkle some in their dust bathing areas, in the soil in their run, in the bedding, under the bedding.
The rule of use is if you see it, it's too much DE. All particulates (dusts) are harmful to bird respiratory tracts, and ours - but DE is more sharp so we take extra care.
If you really want to control worms, then you must also keep the environment dry and clean. This means using pine dry compressed horse-stall type shavings instead of hay, sand instead of soil. Parasite ova and bacteria can't exist as long in very dry conditions - it dries them out and makes them less likely to survive to an infective state.
Also, don't throw scratch in the run - throw it in your deep bedding. Keep feeders where they don't spill only soil but onto concrete blocks. Don't 'treat feed' earthworms - try farmed mealy worms. Eliminate as many earthworms, etc as you can.
Honestly I believe in a twice annual worming program that keeps the paraistes in the birds decreased so that there are less ova coming from the birds. I use fenbendazole (SafeGuard) and ivermectin 5% cattle wormer, rotated. That way I worm less.
I have been using DE for around 10 years. I've used it in the feed, without worming, with worming, everywhere. I used to promote it so much that I was laughed at by "old timers" (who it's funny still remember me in association with DE). I advocated it when it was a "hippy silly treatment", so believe me - if I thought it was a good wormer I'd be the first to cheer and say "Yes!"
But I know the product. I know that for which it's best. And that's inbetween use to help reduce populations of parasites but not as a wormer itself. I put cayenne and VermX in the same category as neither can scientifically be shown to actually eliminate worms as a true anthelmintic. But I sure do like them inbetween so that I worm FAR less and see much greater condition and health in my birds!
So for sure - use it (if it's food grade) as above and I think it'll help your overall program.
DE isn't a deworming agent. It's used to hopefully decrease numbers of parasites in the environment and gut so that deworming isn't necessary as often.
ON its own it's not an effective method of controlling parasite populations (as remember it only effects certain things in the gut, never the parasites in the airway, lungs, etc). Used in conjunction with other methods it can be useful for sure.
First, never ever use anything other than "food grade" DE. Never garden or pool DE as it's not as fine and can be dangerous to the bird.
In the feed, use 2% or less total food weight and you must use every day. Cease to use if the bird ever has an irritated digestive tract. Do not EVER use on the bird. Mix in well with the feed. Additionally you can sprinkle some in their dust bathing areas, in the soil in their run, in the bedding, under the bedding.
The rule of use is if you see it, it's too much DE. All particulates (dusts) are harmful to bird respiratory tracts, and ours - but DE is more sharp so we take extra care.
If you really want to control worms, then you must also keep the environment dry and clean. This means using pine dry compressed horse-stall type shavings instead of hay, sand instead of soil. Parasite ova and bacteria can't exist as long in very dry conditions - it dries them out and makes them less likely to survive to an infective state.
Also, don't throw scratch in the run - throw it in your deep bedding. Keep feeders where they don't spill only soil but onto concrete blocks. Don't 'treat feed' earthworms - try farmed mealy worms. Eliminate as many earthworms, etc as you can.
Honestly I believe in a twice annual worming program that keeps the paraistes in the birds decreased so that there are less ova coming from the birds. I use fenbendazole (SafeGuard) and ivermectin 5% cattle wormer, rotated. That way I worm less.
I have been using DE for around 10 years. I've used it in the feed, without worming, with worming, everywhere. I used to promote it so much that I was laughed at by "old timers" (who it's funny still remember me in association with DE). I advocated it when it was a "hippy silly treatment", so believe me - if I thought it was a good wormer I'd be the first to cheer and say "Yes!"
But I know the product. I know that for which it's best. And that's inbetween use to help reduce populations of parasites but not as a wormer itself. I put cayenne and VermX in the same category as neither can scientifically be shown to actually eliminate worms as a true anthelmintic. But I sure do like them inbetween so that I worm FAR less and see much greater condition and health in my birds!
So for sure - use it (if it's food grade) as above and I think it'll help your overall program.
- Thread starter
- #3
Awesome information - many thanks!
I already live in a very dry sandy environment so I'm ahead of the game there and I do have food grade DE, too. Unfortunately we can't buy decent wormers in CA. Maybe I can buy it out of state on line and have it shipped.
I already live in a very dry sandy environment so I'm ahead of the game there and I do have food grade DE, too. Unfortunately we can't buy decent wormers in CA. Maybe I can buy it out of state on line and have it shipped.
Quote:
Lucky you with the sand! We mostly have clay soil here - and lots of moisture and heat - heaven for most all parasites.
Many your-welcomes on the information.
I love DE. I am a bit of a stickler about seeing it used right so that people won't say "Oh that stuff is junk" because it's really nice stuff.
Look for SafeGuard goat wormer liquid (10%). It should be available. Or if you don't mind individual dosing, SafeGuard paste for horses or livestock/cattle - 1 bb sized piece in the beak. SafeGuard is the brand name for most fenbendazole in the states (Panacur is the pet version).
Here's some info on the fenbendazole:
===================
===================
FENBENDAZOLE INFO FOR POULTRY OWNERS gathered by Nathalie Ross
QUOTE (from MSU cares - see link below):
----------------------
"PARASITE (INTERNAL) SOLUTIONS
The following treatments have been shown to be effective for eliminating internal parasites from poultry and game birds. Neither of these drugs (fenbendazole or leviamisole) has been approved for use by FDA, so the producer accepts all responsibility for their use. Both drugs have been very effective if used properly and will eliminate most types of internal parasites that affect birds. Caution: Do not use with birds producing eggs or meat destined for human consumption.
Fenbendazole Treatments
One-day Treatment
1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed
Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.
Safeguard is a product of Ralston Purina, and Panacur is a product marketed by American Hoechst. One ounce of medication will treat about 1000 10-oz bobwhite quail. Adjustments of the amounts of medication and feed needed may be necessary depending on the number and size of the birds...."
----------------------------
QUOTE:
"Fenbendazole has been shown to be a very effective treatment for eliminating Capillaria (capillary worms), Heterakis (cecal worms), Ascaridia (roundworms), and Syngamus spp. (gapeworms). Toxicity from overdosing with fenbendazole is very remote. Research indicates that amounts up to 100 times the recommended dosages have been given under research conditions without adverse effects to the birds. Use of this product during molt, however, may cause deformity of the emerging feathers."
------------------------------
SOURCE:
http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
From Nathalie:
OK, now - let's work this out as they have it dosed.
One ounce = 30cc'*s = recommended treatment for 20 lbs of feed.
divide that all by 10
1/10th ounce = 3 cc's = treatment for 2 pounds of feed.
*Actually it's 29.5735296 cc's but I rounded up.
So get a syringe and measure out 3 cc's of SafeGuard liquid for goats (or paste for horses) for horses. It's 10%.(** see below.) Mix that in about 1/8th of a cup of water. Mix with the crumbles and let it set for about 10 minutes til it absorbs. Feed as their only source of feed for the day, and replace regular crumbles when all of that food is gone.
**Goat wormer looks like this: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=0029013
**Horse/cattle paste looks like this: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro rd%20horse
Brieanna's Mom recently took her bird to the vet and the vet recommended 10% SafeGuard goat wormer as follows:
----------------------------
----------------------------
QUOTE:
I am sharing this information to you from Starfire's doctor (my chicken's doctor) at Gladstone Vet in Gladstone Oregon. The vet put her on a deworming medicine and included some for the rest of my flock. I have never dewormed them before and I am not sure how many times per year I should do this but this is what she had me do..... and the best part is I found the prescription she gave me over-the-counter at Wilco (a local feed store) this evening!!
The prescription was called Fenbendazole Oral Suspension -- I was able to find this exact stuff at Wilco in Canby this evening. It was with the goat dewormer and the brand is called Safe-guard Dewormer for Goats. The 4.2 oz bottle cost $26.00 and does not expire until 11/2012 which will last a long time. When the doctor prescribed this for Starfire she said it was a very safe drug to use. The dosage she had me use was as follows:
.2 ml for my smaller banty chicken (2 to 3 pounds-ish).
.4 ml for my 4 to 5 pounds-ish hens.
.6 ml for my larger girls -- about 6 to 7 pounds-ish.
We put the medicine in a little syringe and squirt it in the chickens mouth. It actually goes in pretty easily -- the trick is trying to get their beak open and insert the medicine when they are exhaling.... ...
We were to do this dosage for each chicken for 4 days in a row for a deworming treatment. And not to eat the eggs (or feed them back to the girls as this could possibly be re-introducing the drug to them through their eggs) for 14 days.
SOURCE: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2765280#p2765280
(last edited August 24, 2009)
===========================
===========================
Lucky you with the sand! We mostly have clay soil here - and lots of moisture and heat - heaven for most all parasites.
Many your-welcomes on the information.
Look for SafeGuard goat wormer liquid (10%). It should be available. Or if you don't mind individual dosing, SafeGuard paste for horses or livestock/cattle - 1 bb sized piece in the beak. SafeGuard is the brand name for most fenbendazole in the states (Panacur is the pet version).
Here's some info on the fenbendazole:
===================
===================
FENBENDAZOLE INFO FOR POULTRY OWNERS gathered by Nathalie Ross
QUOTE (from MSU cares - see link below):
----------------------
"PARASITE (INTERNAL) SOLUTIONS
The following treatments have been shown to be effective for eliminating internal parasites from poultry and game birds. Neither of these drugs (fenbendazole or leviamisole) has been approved for use by FDA, so the producer accepts all responsibility for their use. Both drugs have been very effective if used properly and will eliminate most types of internal parasites that affect birds. Caution: Do not use with birds producing eggs or meat destined for human consumption.
Fenbendazole Treatments
One-day Treatment
1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed
Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.
Safeguard is a product of Ralston Purina, and Panacur is a product marketed by American Hoechst. One ounce of medication will treat about 1000 10-oz bobwhite quail. Adjustments of the amounts of medication and feed needed may be necessary depending on the number and size of the birds...."
----------------------------
QUOTE:
"Fenbendazole has been shown to be a very effective treatment for eliminating Capillaria (capillary worms), Heterakis (cecal worms), Ascaridia (roundworms), and Syngamus spp. (gapeworms). Toxicity from overdosing with fenbendazole is very remote. Research indicates that amounts up to 100 times the recommended dosages have been given under research conditions without adverse effects to the birds. Use of this product during molt, however, may cause deformity of the emerging feathers."
------------------------------
SOURCE:
http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
From Nathalie:
OK, now - let's work this out as they have it dosed.
One ounce = 30cc'*s = recommended treatment for 20 lbs of feed.
divide that all by 10
1/10th ounce = 3 cc's = treatment for 2 pounds of feed.
*Actually it's 29.5735296 cc's but I rounded up.
So get a syringe and measure out 3 cc's of SafeGuard liquid for goats (or paste for horses) for horses. It's 10%.(** see below.) Mix that in about 1/8th of a cup of water. Mix with the crumbles and let it set for about 10 minutes til it absorbs. Feed as their only source of feed for the day, and replace regular crumbles when all of that food is gone.
**Goat wormer looks like this: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=0029013
**Horse/cattle paste looks like this: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro rd%20horse
Brieanna's Mom recently took her bird to the vet and the vet recommended 10% SafeGuard goat wormer as follows:
----------------------------
----------------------------
QUOTE:
I am sharing this information to you from Starfire's doctor (my chicken's doctor) at Gladstone Vet in Gladstone Oregon. The vet put her on a deworming medicine and included some for the rest of my flock. I have never dewormed them before and I am not sure how many times per year I should do this but this is what she had me do..... and the best part is I found the prescription she gave me over-the-counter at Wilco (a local feed store) this evening!!
The prescription was called Fenbendazole Oral Suspension -- I was able to find this exact stuff at Wilco in Canby this evening. It was with the goat dewormer and the brand is called Safe-guard Dewormer for Goats. The 4.2 oz bottle cost $26.00 and does not expire until 11/2012 which will last a long time. When the doctor prescribed this for Starfire she said it was a very safe drug to use. The dosage she had me use was as follows:
.2 ml for my smaller banty chicken (2 to 3 pounds-ish).
.4 ml for my 4 to 5 pounds-ish hens.
.6 ml for my larger girls -- about 6 to 7 pounds-ish.
We put the medicine in a little syringe and squirt it in the chickens mouth. It actually goes in pretty easily -- the trick is trying to get their beak open and insert the medicine when they are exhaling.... ...
We were to do this dosage for each chicken for 4 days in a row for a deworming treatment. And not to eat the eggs (or feed them back to the girls as this could possibly be re-introducing the drug to them through their eggs) for 14 days.
SOURCE: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2765280#p2765280
(last edited August 24, 2009)
===========================
===========================
Last edited:
I hope this isn't "off topic", but you seem to know a lot about DE, and I have a question about that...apologies if this is not the right place to post.
Regarding use of DE in the coop....I have horse type pine shavings on the floor, and a long roost with a poop board below. I scrape the poop board every morning and pick up what poop I can from the shavings. The girls also love to lounge on top of the nesting boxes, which are stacked two over/two under and are basically a cube. The top of the cube is in front of a window, so they like to huddle there, against the window, at night. I scrape this surface also in the morning, and if there are any really nasty poopy areas, I spritz them with vinegar and wipe clean with a paper towel.
THEN, I lightly dust the surfaces with the food grade DE. Yes, you can see it - it is like a lightly floured bread board. Maybe not quite that much, but you can see it. So the DE dusting occurs daily.
I also sprinkle it/dust the shavings whenever I add shavings, which is maybe once a week.
Is this too much DE? I can't figure out another way to keep surfaces clean & dry, but if this will hurt the chickens then obviously I'll live with less clean, and less dry surfaces. Many thanks.
Regarding use of DE in the coop....I have horse type pine shavings on the floor, and a long roost with a poop board below. I scrape the poop board every morning and pick up what poop I can from the shavings. The girls also love to lounge on top of the nesting boxes, which are stacked two over/two under and are basically a cube. The top of the cube is in front of a window, so they like to huddle there, against the window, at night. I scrape this surface also in the morning, and if there are any really nasty poopy areas, I spritz them with vinegar and wipe clean with a paper towel.
THEN, I lightly dust the surfaces with the food grade DE. Yes, you can see it - it is like a lightly floured bread board. Maybe not quite that much, but you can see it. So the DE dusting occurs daily.
I also sprinkle it/dust the shavings whenever I add shavings, which is maybe once a week.
Is this too much DE? I can't figure out another way to keep surfaces clean & dry, but if this will hurt the chickens then obviously I'll live with less clean, and less dry surfaces. Many thanks.
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