all male review

[gadus]

I'm getting dual purpose birds and will be incubating myself. I plan on not sexing the birds and killing the males at fourteen weeks - as well as the layers at the two year mark.

Is there a huge difference in taste with males? Is either one necessarily a better choice for chicken stock?

I notice that McMurray sells both sexes of meat birds for most breeds - with not too substantial price differences - so maybe it's just a question of ease of slaughter.

Thoughts?

 

[kattabelly]

When you say dual purpose, do you mean "heritage" type breeds or the slower growing meat birds that I think have become more popular relatively recently from the big US hatcheries?

They're still perfectly edible, and you might find you prefer the texture and taste of the meat at that age, but heritage type dual purpose cockerels really won't have all that much meat on their bones at fourteen weeks old.

If you just want to make chicken stock and aren't too bothered about the meat itself, I'd save yourself the space and time and feed costs and just look for unwanted cockerels or old hens people are either giving away or selling cheap.

 

[FunClucks]

So you're purchasing and incubating meat bird eggs, or a dual purpose breed and using them as meat birds. What breed are you planning to get? That does influence the answer some, as far as size of birds goes.

By 5-6 weeks, for most breeds, it will be obvious if you have males or females based on comb size and color. For production birds, you may be able to tell as soon as 3 weeks.

If you're going thru Murray McMurray hatchery, they don't sell meat bird eggs. They do have some nice selections of meat bird chicks, and some appealing combination packs, if you want meat and eggs, you might consider that one.

Males taste like females until they go thru sexual maturity. That happens around 12-15 weeks and older for most breeds. Cornish cross, or cornish roasters should be processed when indicated by the hatchery, so generally 7-12 weeks or younger. They will be tender that entire time, but size of the bird will determine best way to cook it. For roasters, generally I like my CX no older that 7-8 weeks, as after that the size difference between the breast and legs and back is great, so I part out the carcass for more even cooking, and take off the breast meat.

Males and females taste about the same as far as stock is concerned, when you're using the carcass and bones.

For dual purpose roasters, anything up to about 14 weeks appeals to most people. For fryers, 10-12 weeks or younger is best. Whatever breed you get, process them over a range of ages to determine which flavor you prefer. For best results make sure to rest the bird in the fridge until the joints move easily before cooking or freezing it (you can rest after you thaw it out after freezing it, but you must make sure the joints move freely before cooking or whatever bird you cook will taste like rubber).

Anything over 16 weeks I pressure cook to be sure it's tender. Rest in fridge until joints move easily, then pressure cook. I'm bad about letting my birds go long - if you have anything besides CX or CX adjacent breeds, they can handle a bit of delay. 3 month roasters (ginger broilers, red rangers, etc) can be processed whenever. However, CX MUST be processed when recommended or they start dying on you due to heart and leg issues. Even then, 2-3% loss is normal when raising CX.

Egger males, or heritage breeds, which includes most dual purpose breeds unless the strain is specifically optimized for meat (check out Freedom Ranger hatchery dual purpose meat bird offerings), will have much less meat than 3 month broilers or CX. CX has the best meat per cost of raising it, hands down. But they can be tricky to raise, and you have to buy chicks every year - they respond differently than every other breed I've tried to my raising practices. Egger roosters - you'll be lucky to get 1-3 lbs meat off the carcass for most breeds that mature to 5-7 lbs live weight. Many folks are fine with this.

I tried a bunch of different meat and heritage breeds to see what I liked best as far as processing age, size of carcass, and reproducibility. So far, my favorite is the Freedom Ranger Hatchery strain of New Hampshires. They're not super great at eggs, but they lay enough to raise more, and they are huge and chunky, and make a nice big carcass. About as big as they can be without having CX issues from it, IMO.

 

[FunClucks]

Also, slaughter is the same effort, male or female. Just watch out for the spurs on the males. Any bird may struggle, so be prepared for that. A good breed will be relatively tame to handle, either sex, and how you raise and interact with them helps also.

Females generally have less meat on them, because they're slightly smaller. How much smaller depends on the breed. Also they won't crow prior to processing - noise can be an issue for some folks. They will make normal chicken noises. They should also be processed at the same ages recommended for cockerels, or slightly later.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is there a huge difference in taste with males? Is either one necessarily a better choice for chicken stock?

I'm struggling to figure out what you are asking. I think you are asking if there is a difference in stock made from 14 week old cockerels versus 2 year old hens. I'll assume you are talking about making broth from the bones left over after you have cooked the birds? I could be totally off base.

As they go through puberty, the cockerel's hormones add flavor. Some people call that gamey. Some of us like that flavor, others hate it. Different cockerels go through puberty at different times. I don't think it has anything to do with breed, different cockerels of the same breed go through puberty at different times and at different rates. On average a 14 week old cockerel is not gpoing to be that far into the process but you will notice some difference.

As they age the hens also add flavor. It's not the same as the hormones are different but can still get kind of strong. Again, some people like it and some don't.

Personally I use my pullets, cockerels, hens, and rosters to make broth. To me, it is all good. But taste is very individual. I suggest you try both and see which you prefer.

 

[gadus]

When you say dual purpose, do you mean "heritage" type breeds or the slower growing meat birds that I think have become more popular relatively recently from the big US hatcheries?

They're still perfectly edible, and you might find you prefer the texture and taste of the meat at that age, but heritage type dual purpose cockerels really won't have all that much meat on their bones at fourteen weeks old.

If you just want to make chicken stock and aren't too bothered about the meat itself, I'd save yourself the space and time and feed costs and just look for unwanted cockerels or old hens people are either giving away or selling cheap.

By dual purpose, I just mean larger birds, decent layers, which after two years or so, will then make a decent meal.

 

[gadus]

I

I'm struggling to figure out what you are asking. I think you are asking if there is a difference in stock made from 14 week old cockerels versus 2 year old hens. I'll assume you are talking about making broth from the bones left over after you have cooked the birds? I could be totally off base.

As they go through puberty, the cockerel's hormones add flavor. Some people call that gamey. Some of us like that flavor, others hate it. Different cockerels go through puberty at different times. I don't think it has anything to do with breed, different cockerels of the same breed go through puberty at different times and at different rates. On average a 14 week old cockerel is not gpoing to be that far into the process but you will notice some difference.

As they age the hens also add flavor. It's not the same as the hormones are different but can still get kind of strong. Again, some people like it and some don't.

Personally I use my pullets, cockerels, hens, and rosters to make broth. To me, it is all good. But taste is very individual. I suggest you try both and see which you prefer.

Sorry for confusion...I'm looking ahead to when I'm incubating and figuring out what to do with the cockerels. I guess I'll stock some and make meat birds of the others - and play with the timing of all of that. Also, after the hens are done laying, they'll make fine stock - but also a decent crockpot meal. In the fall, I culled my oldest birds but they were too old even for the crockpot so I just made stock of them, came out great.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was way off base, thanks for the clarification.

There are differences in how big the birds will get and how well they will lay. Breed is important in that but so is strain. Different flocks of the same breed will lay differently and grow differently. The way I'd approach it would be to look at the individual hatchery's write-up of their chickens, they often tell you how many eggs to expect and the adult weight of the hens and roosters. Some hatcheries may be a bit more honest about that than others but I don't know of a better way. And you'll know of their availability from that hatchery.

There are all kinds of different way to go about this. I'll go into detail of how I do it but other ways work.

My goals are mainly to raise them for meat and to play with genetics. Good egg laying is a tie-breaker when it comes to which I keep for breeding so my flock lays pretty well.

My laying/breeding flock consists of one rooster and 6 to 8 hens. Every year I raise about 45 chicks. That's how many I need to eat one chicken each week considering how many nights a year I don't follow my weekly schedule, mainly vacations or visiting relatives. There are only two of us. I can get two meals out of one small hen, baked chicken on Thursday night and chicken soup on Saturdays. If I butcher a larger bird then I have some chicken sandwiches for lunch. I hatch most of these but occasionally bring in some new blood to maintain genetic diversity and to play with genetics.

Every year I rotate some of my hens to keep the age of the layers low so they still lay well. Sometimes I'll lose a hen or eat one if I have a reason to cull her, usually because of behaviors. That's why the number of my hens vary. So I typically keep 3 or 4 pullets every year, keep the previous years pullets through their molt, and eat the oldest ones as they start their last molt. So about 2-1/2 years old. Since I'm playing with genetics I usually keep a new cockerel to become my rooster every year.

As far as breeds mine are a mix: Delaware, Australorp, Sussex, Orpington, Rock, and Ameraucana (for the blue/green eggs).

I start butchering cockerels at 16 weeks of age and by the time the last are 23 weeks old I've decided which cockerel will be my next rooster. I typically butcher the new pullets around 8 months of age after I've decided which one I'm keeping to join the flock. I want them to lay some eggs before I make that decision. And I eat the older hens who's time has come and last years rooster.

When I butcher them I part them as I butcher with the drumsticks, thighs, breasts, and wishbone going into one packet for that Thursday baked chicken. Any bones left over from either meal are saved for broth. I also save the liquid from baking to go into the broth. As I butcher, I separately save the neck, back, wings, heart, and gizzard to make broth.

When I make broth one batch is typically a pack of the parts I saved plus any bones and liquid I have. I use a large crock pot and cook it overnight. I make three batches on three nights and then pressure can the broth. With my equipment and methods that works well but you may find something different works for you.

One of my issues is managing freezer space. I have a large garden, orchard, and berries. During the season I store a lot of stuff in the freezer. Stuff I'll keep frozen until winter, berries or fruit to save up enough for a batch or jelly or jam, or veggies I'm saving to pressure can soup. Often I have to make a batch of broth to free up room for veggies, fruit, or berries or I need to make a batch of blueberry jam to make room so I can butcher chickens.

I think those are the high points. I'll be glad to clarify anything you want. But again, this is just the way it works for me. Lots of people successfully do it other ways.

Good luck!