Another dust bath question

[Stoneschillin]

I’ve seen a lot of back and forth regarding sand and DE in dust bath for quail. I was wondering does anyone use lime like I’ve seen people use with chicken?
I’m getting quail in 2 weeks (my first time) and am trying to have everything prepped and ready for them. I bought DE but now I see so much conflicting information I don’t know what to do from here. They’ll be arriving as chicks and I certainly don’t want to harm them!
I live by the shoreline so we do have a bit more of a humid climate.

 

[Whiskybear]

The DE debate seems to never end. I’ve never used it, mostly because it seems unnecessary. They love sand and with coarse sand I never needed to add grit. Lime, again, seems unnecessary. Unless you’re dealing with mites, dirt and sand are ample.

 

[Nabiki]

A small amount of DE in the sand bath is not a problem and is an additional deterrent to mites. DE is useless as a dewormer or any other internal use.

Too much DE in the batch can cause respiratory issues.

 

[Stoneschillin]

The DE debate seems to never end. I’ve never used it, mostly because it seems unnecessary. They love sand and with coarse sand I never needed to add grit. Lime, again, seems unnecessary. Unless you’re dealing with mites, dirt and sand are ample.

Yeah I’m just trying to be preventative and ensure they don’t get mites.
What kind of sand do you use? I’ve seen some say play sand but it clumps and could be bad for birds so others say to use construction sand. And what is the best ratio you’ve found with dirt and sand?

 

[eddie_van_quailen]

I'm not a fan of treating problems that don't exist yet. For me & my situation, personally, the respiratory dangers of DE outweigh any potential pesticidal benefit. Besides, mites aren't impossible to treat if they do occur (yes it is a PITA but not "burn it all down and start over" bad). I use this stuff in the garden for pest control and might throw a handful into their dust bath every now & again if I remember, but mostly plain dirt/sand is all I'll use.

I give my chicks horticultural sand for their dust bath because it's what I had on hand for the garden, it's coarse, doesn't clump, and has no fertilizers/additives (and because folks here said it would be okay ). Based on what I've read, coarse non-clumping sand without additives is best. I wouldn't use play sand, personally, but many do without issue.

 

[Whiskybear]

I use construction sand from masonry supply place. For $24 the dump a scoop in the truck bed and I have sand pile that seems to last forever. For the elevated cages I don’t even bother with dirt mixed in unless the sand pile is getting low.

 

[Avocadoman]

The DE debate seems to never end. I’ve never used it, mostly because it seems unnecessary. They love sand and with coarse sand I never needed to add grit. Lime, again, seems unnecessary. Unless you’re dealing with mites, dirt and sand are ample.

My 2cents. I'm not sure why there is a DE debate at all. DE is ubiquitous in the soil where I live so worrying about its safety seems to be a waste of time. I literally live in the stuff. There is some lady online sponsored by some mite insecticide company (of course) that claims DE is both carcinogenic and ineffective against mites. This is rubbish considering DE is not even on CAs prop 65 list as a potential carcinogen which is one of the most overzealous and overly cautious lists of carcinogens compiled anywhere. People that work at our local DE mine in Lompoc do not suffer higher rates of cancer either. There are too many people spreading fear based on nonsense or the desire to profit. But I digress, yes, DE is a lung irritant as all fine abrasive material can be if too much is inhaled, but even guys working in a DE mine have little problems with it and they work there for decades...far longer than a chicken's life.
As far as its effectiveness on mites? Well recently, I've had a very sick hen with CRD infection that is so lethargic she has not been able to dirt bathe for two weeks. A few days ago I noticed a tiny light greenish/tan colored spider looking things running around on her face and comb. I dismissed it as just a tiny bug, but today I looked again with my glasses on and saw 10-12 of the little things running around on her face and comb and realized I had a problem. I took some DE which I had laying around and sucked it up into an ear syringe, shook it so the dust would be suspended in air and puffed a fine cloud of DE dust around her head when her eyes were closed (sleeping), her bum, under her wings and any other place I could access. I went back and inspected her comb 15 min later and found four dead mites and one still alive but struggling. You just can't beat 1st person empirical evidence like that to cut through the anti-DE fear mongering nonsense.

 

[Nabiki]

My 2cents. I'm not sure why there is a DE debate at all. DE is ubiquitous in the soil where I live so worrying about its safety seems to be a waste of time. I literally live in the stuff. There is some lady online sponsored by some mite insecticide company (of course) that claims DE is both carcinogenic and ineffective against mites. This is rubbish considering DE is not even on CAs prop 65 list as a potential carcinogen which is one of the most overzealous and overly cautious lists of carcinogens compiled anywhere. People that work at our local DE mine in Lompoc do not suffer higher rates of cancer either. There are too many people spreading fear based on nonsense or the desire to profit. But I digress, yes, DE is a lung irritant as all fine abrasive material can be if too much is inhaled, but even guys working in a DE mine have little problems with it and they work there for decades...far longer than a chicken's life.
As far as its effectiveness on mites? Well recently, I've had a very sick hen with CRD infection that is so lethargic she has not been able to dirt bathe for two weeks. A few days ago I noticed a tiny light greenish/tan colored spider looking things running around on her face and comb. I dismissed it as just a tiny bug, but today I looked again with my glasses on and saw 10-12 of the little things running around on her face and comb and realized I had a problem. I took some DE which I had laying around and sucked it up into an ear syringe, shook it so the dust would be suspended in air and puffed a fine cloud of DE dust around her head when her eyes were closed (sleeping), her bum, under her wings and any other place I could access. I went back and inspected her comb 15 min later and found four dead mites and one still alive but struggling. You just can't beat 1st person empirical evidence like that to cut through the anti-DE fear mongering nonsense.

That matches with the information on DE that I've found. It's effective against insects, not effective against internal infestations, and can be an irritant if breathed.

 

[21hens-incharge]

Catch 22, DE does not discriminate. Once airborne it settles on every surface including flowers and is harmful to the bee population.

While applying it to the soil in the garden doesn't affect bees it still is harmful for them to land on plants and flowers coated in it.