Appenzeller Spitzhauben in a coop w/ a run?

[Squix]

Hello,

After taking care of others flocks for many years, I have finally decided to get a flock of my own. I have a coop which is approximately 60 SF and a run which is approximately 240 SF with plenty of vertical space in both.

I have been trying to decide on a breed to get as I would like to have flock of one breed as I find it appealing. I absolutely love Appenzeller Spitzhauben but have read in multiple places that they NEED to be free range. Unfortunately for me, that is not possible due to animals and proximity to a road. I was just wondering if anyone has kept this breed in a coop with a run? Was it successful?

Additionally, if anyone has any other breed suggestions I would be open!

Thanks!

 

[Mrs. K]

The thing is, there are many, many different types of chickens. If you go to Sandhillspreservation.com - they have an amazing amount of information on all kinds of different chickens. Henderson chicken chart is another source of information.

One can do what you want. So you could get those birds and keep them in your set up. Now, they may do fine there and then again, they may not. What I would expect is that some will work out, and some won't. I would not fill the coop/run with the maximum number of chickens as they seem to need more room.

But also, because I believe that is better to have a multi-generational flock - so that your birds are not all the same age. Then you don't have all pullets, or all 5 year old birds.

But I can see why those would be fun, but I don't think they will be pet like. If you want, sit in your lap - pick a different breed.

Mrs K

 

[Squix]

The thing is, there are many, many different types of chickens. If you go to Sandhillspreservation.com - they have an amazing amount of information on all kinds of different chickens. Henderson chicken chart is another source of information.

One can do what you want. So you could get those birds and keep them in your set up. Now, they may do fine there and then again, they may not. What I would expect is that some will work out, and some won't. I would not fill the coop/run with the maximum number of chickens as they seem to need more room.

But also, because I believe that is better to have a multi-generational flock - so that your birds are not all the same age. Then you don't have all pullets, or all 5 year old birds.

But I can see why those would be fun, but I don't think they will be pet like. If you want, sit in your lap - pick a different breed.

Mrs K

Hello Mrs. K,

Thank you for your response. It is very much appreciated! That site you mentioned seems very helpful and I will make sure to make use of it.

Yes, I would definitely not fill to capacity if I was to get this breed as that is what I read as well. What SF per bird do you typically recommend? This seems widely variable obviously depending on breed, but also by person. Would appreciate any insight you have.

I agree, I would love to add to the flock over time to have an array of ages and also get some more genetic diversity in the flock.

Thanks again for your information/advice, I really appreciate it!

 

[Mrs. K]

Well the whole idea of 'more is better' really does apply to space in chickens, not so much to the number of birds. As a rule of thumb, start With the idea of 4 sq ft in the coop, and 10 sq ft in the run per bird. Then divide that number in half - start with that number. Next year, cull and add, repeat over the years to come. With your numbers - 15 total... so start with 7-8 birds.

Thing is, some birds can take a little overcrowding, and some cannot. Some coops by design, handle a few more better, some runs do. One just needs to really watch and listen to their chickens, solving for peace in the flock.

Personally, if you ask (you kind of did) I would start with just hens first. I think the chance of getting a rotten rooster increases when raised with just flock mates. You have years to do the hobby - work into it. Plan to add chicks next year, and get a rooster then. Or if you know someone with this breed, ask for a full grown rooster after your hens start to lay.

Mrs K

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, welcome to the forum! Glad you joined!

I have been trying to decide on a breed to get as I would like to have flock of one breed as I find it appealing. I absolutely love Appenzeller Spitzhauben but have read in multiple places that they NEED to be free range.

Then I'd get some and see how it goes. Do you know if they free ranged where they are coming from?

Why do you want chickens? How many will it take to meet these goals? You don't need to tell me but I think it important that you think about this. You can read my thoughts on space if you follow the link in my signature below but I generally agree. It is much better to give them extra room than to shoehorn any breed into the minimum space recommended.

There are different posts on this forum where someone thought they'd loved a breed but when they got them they were not favorably impressed. I think part of this is that while certain breeds may have tendencies each individual bird of that breed is an individual with its own personality. But go by your own experiences. Base your decisions on what you see. We are also individuals and like different things.

Good luck!

 

[Squix]

Hi, welcome to the forum! Glad you joined!


Then I'd get some and see how it goes. Do you know if they free ranged where they are coming from?

Why do you want chickens? How many will it take to meet these goals? You don't need to tell me but I think it important that you think about this. You can read my thoughts on space if you follow the link in my signature below but I generally agree. It is much better to give them extra room than to shoehorn any breed into the minimum space recommended.

There are different posts on this forum where someone thought they'd loved a breed but when they got them they were not favorably impressed. I think part of this is that while certain breeds may have tendencies each individual bird of that breed is an individual with its own personality. But go by your own experiences. Base your decisions on what you see. We are also individuals and like different things.

Good luck!

Thank you for the warm welcome, happy to be here! I have already learned a lot and will definitely learn more!

If I get them I will likely purchase chicks from an online hatchery. Whether their parents are free ranged, likely depends on the hatchery.

I want chickens for multiple reasons. Eggs, of course, the fun of raising and caring for them, and I am also interested in eventually trying hatching my own chicks from fertilized eggs. Once, I eventually get more space and understand how to do it I really like the idea of selling chicks locally through farmers markets which I already go to to sell my honey and maple syrup.

Yeah, I totally agree on the issue of space and I want to provide the best possible environment I am able to. This is pretty much why I started the thread as I want ensure I can properly care for the breed before forcing them into a bad environment.

Absolutely understand that people realize a breed isn't for them after getting them. As you said, it differs by the individual bird which means any breed can theoretically have individuals that are unpleasant to care for with certain breeds more likely to have certain traits. With everything I have read/watched, the majority of birds from this breed for most part are friendly and occasionally skittish which to me seems like a fine set of average traits. I would love to hear if you have anything else to say on this. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I'm still learning!

Thank you so much!

 

[Ridgerunner]

If I get them I will likely purchase chicks from an online hatchery. Whether their parents are free ranged, likely depends on the hatchery.

Contact that specific hatchery and ask them. I think you will find that a hatchery does not often free range but I've been wrong before. If they were coming from a breeder that can be different.

 

[Squix]

Contact that specific hatchery and ask them. I think you will find that a hatchery does not often free range but I've been wrong before. If they were coming from a breeder that can be different.

Will do, thank you! I really appreciate your help!

 

[NatJ]

If I get them I will likely purchase chicks from an online hatchery. Whether their parents are free ranged, likely depends on the hatchery.

Cackle Hatchery has some videos that appear to show breeding flocks of Spitzhaubens. Examples:

Those are in rather large pens (plenty of space for chickens to flap their wings, run a few steps, move away from each other), but definitely not what anyone would reasonably consider "free range."

It seems that square feet per bird, and total size of pen, both end up being important. If you have two chickens in a pen 4x5 feet, that makes 10 square feet of space per chicken, but no chicken can move more than 4 or 5 feet in any direction. If you have 72 chickens in a pen 12x24 feet, that makes only 4 square feet of space per chicken, but each chicken can move up to 24 feet in one direction. Because of the way chickens move around, some areas within the pen will have more chickens and some will have less, but overall it feels more spacious than the smaller pen, even though there are more total chickens and fewer square feet each.

People with just a few chickens will often keep them in a small pen, which is just plain small, no matter how few chickens are in the pen.

I have a coop which is approximately 60 SF and a run which is approximately 240 SF with plenty of vertical space in both.

I would guess that your coop & run are big enough to keep Spitzhaubens without major problems, but of course you will only know for sure by trying it and seeing what happens.

I absolutely love Appenzeller Spitzhauben but have read in multiple places that they NEED to be free range.

What kind of "need" do they mean? Many chicken breeds can be happier free ranging (unless a predator gets them), but I sincerely doubt Spitzhaubens will die if they are confined to a coop and run. They should be able to live and lay eggs and even seem relatively happy and healthy. Any chicken that cannot do that, is not going to be available from major hatcheries, nor from any breeder that keeps more than one breed or variety, not from anyone that separates birds into pens to control who breeds with who, nor from anyone in a climate cold enough that chickens stay indoors during the winter.

I'm just looking at it as a matter of practicality. If it can't live & breed in captivity, it won't be available to buy because it can't be raised for sale (example: there are some beautiful fish that cannot be kept in an aquarium, because they do die when people try.)

 

[Squix]

Cackle Hatchery has some videos that appear to show breeding flocks of Spitzhaubens. Examples:

Those are in rather large pens (plenty of space for chickens to flap their wings, run a few steps, move away from each other), but definitely not what anyone would reasonably consider "free range."

It seems that square feet per bird, and total size of pen, both end up being important. If you have two chickens in a pen 4x5 feet, that makes 10 square feet of space per chicken, but no chicken can move more than 4 or 5 feet in any direction. If you have 72 chickens in a pen 12x24 feet, that makes only 4 square feet of space per chicken, but each chicken can move up to 24 feet in one direction. Because of the way chickens move around, some areas within the pen will have more chickens and some will have less, but overall it feels more spacious than the smaller pen, even though there are more total chickens and fewer square feet each.

People with just a few chickens will often keep them in a small pen, which is just plain small, no matter how few chickens are in the pen.



I would guess that your coop & run are big enough to keep Spitzhaubens without major problems, but of course you will only know for sure by trying it and seeing what happens.


What kind of "need" do they mean? Many chicken breeds can be happier free ranging (unless a predator gets them), but I sincerely doubt Spitzhaubens will die if they are confined to a coop and run. They should be able to live and lay eggs and even seem relatively happy and healthy. Any chicken that cannot do that, is not going to be available from major hatcheries, nor from any breeder that keeps more than one breed or variety, not from anyone that separates birds into pens to control who breeds with who, nor from anyone in a climate cold enough that chickens stay indoors during the winter.

I'm just looking at it as a matter of practicality. If it can't live & breed in captivity, it won't be available to buy because it can't be raised for sale (example: there are some beautiful fish that cannot be kept in an aquarium, because they do die when people try.)

Thank you for the videos, I hadn't seen these and it is relieving in a way to see them.

The breakdown of space you gave also makes a lot of sense. The run they will be in is 12'x20' which would give them ample room roam to and flap their wings as you described.

When they say they need to be free ranging, I think it is likely due to their environment historically. They are also known to be excellent foragers which they can't do as much in a run. However, I feel if necessary I could easily supplement their want to forage through feeding in the run.

Availability is a good way to look at if they can be kept in captivity. I had never thought about it that way but it makes a lot of sense.

I really appreciate all of your knowledge and advice. It goes a long way for me.