Are my Guineas not the "sharpest tools in the shed"?

[Sfraker]

First off let me say I love my Guineas. They are funny and bring us joy every day. Now I'll transition into the bad. They appear to be fairly dense.

We got 6 of them at 6 weeks old and kept them in an extra large wire dog crate on top of our waist high duck coop. This way they could see the ducks and they would be inside the duck pen. It's now been 5 weeks and we opened the crate door and left it open. It took them two days to come out. Then once one was out it panicked and could not figure out how to get back up to the crate. That was another day before it got back, then another day before they all came out.

Once they were out they could not figure out how to get back into the crate where their food and water is. I have a perch going from the ground into the crate that they all perch on, but they walked around the ground trying to fly up to the crate and not being successful.

Note: I did not tame my guineas, they are ok with us being right next to them, but we cannot easily catch them. I can move food and water in and out of the crate and clean out the straw without much worry from them.

Since opening the crate I have had two escapes from the duck pen when opening the gate to go feed/water. They then panic running back and forth trying to get back in. When I go out to herd them in I am really slow and quiet. I simply walk a bit behind them with my hands low. They try to shoot through the fence, but they don't fit. They will then run towards me to try to get past me. Why would you run towards danger?

The only other birds I have had is the ducks. They seem to catch onto things pretty quickly, the guineas do not. Any change takes them days to figure out, even minor changes. Is this normal?

 

[chooks4life]

They try to shoot through the fence, but they don't fit. They will then run towards me to try to get past me. Why would you run towards danger?

That's a display of normal intelligence, actually. They know the back of you is safer than the front of you, and they know they have to be brave and charge towards 'danger' to escape it.

If they were truly lacking intelligence or comprehension of man-made structures (the two different cognitive processes can appear identical sometimes but they are completely separate) then they'd just keep ramming the fence repeatedly even though it never works. Even intelligent wild animals can make that mistake, their minds overridden by fear.

The only other birds I have had is the ducks. They seem to catch onto things pretty quickly, the guineas do not. Any change takes them days to figure out, even minor changes. Is this normal?

It is normal for animals raised in incredibly restrictive environments, especially those also raised on incredibly restrictive diets.

Imagine a human raised in a single cube structure, never leaving it, suddenly having the ability to free range in a world of slopes, different heights, angles, obstacles, both opaque and partially transparent walls... They wouldn't be much smarter in how they conduct themselves than the guineas are being right now. Anxiety due to over-stimulation and overexposure would also be likely, they'd probably just want to return to their little cube of safety, which is probably what you're seeing there.

You've probably actually heard of situations like this where a human (despite being raised 'freerange') was forced to live within small confines for a while, and then became psychologically dependent on, or attached to their four walls, ceiling and floor, afraid to leave it, willing to fight to stay there.

Intensive cage rearing and breeding for generations is one surefire way to rob animals of their instincts, both social/familial ones and instincts pertaining to managing in the natural world. The 'man-made world' is another thing entirely. Instincts require stimulation and reinforcement to be retained with each generation or they can fade quickly, very quickly in domestic animals particularly. This is one big reason poultry from a certain background (intensively caged and socially segregated) are generally hyper-aggressive with deficient or warped instincts and behaviors, incapable of making correct dietary or behavioral choices even when placed in a more natural setting. They no longer have that inherited resource of instinctive data to guide them.

Given time, your guineas should become more knowledgeable and in a free range environment instinct will be stimulated continually, and they will likely eventually 'regrow their brains'... But it may take months, years, even generations. The effects of intensive caging are long-reaching. Also, the diet they and their parents have been fed is long-ranging in effect as well. It may say 'complete feed' on the label but chances are it's only got the barest basics required for short term survival, up until the normal culling/replacing age of about 2 years, as is the case with most so-called 'complete feeds'. Complete nutrition is far more than 20-odd nutrients, lol. Everything in the body, including the brain, depends on a great diet to be the best it can be. The worse you feed humans or animals, the dumber and sicker they get.

Kelp is known to increase intelligence in anything that consumes it, pretty much, it's one of the fastest ways to bring some smarts out of the dumbest livestock; at the very least it will almost always restore lost instinct which functions perfectly well as a sort of backup brain to run the animal in the absence of its more conscious brain being active. It's a very, very helpful thing to add to their diet and will have an overall effect which will reach for generations onwards. Every generation you raise with kelp in the diet will be an improvement on the previous in every single way, in my experience.

In humans, iodine deficiency is known to reduce IQ by up to 16 points and contribute to retardation in the womb, or lifelong brain damage (which is often something many 'normal' individuals actually suffer from, a maternal insufficiency of iodine). It's a global epidemic but in most afflicted individuals (being the majority of all people in almost all countries) there are no clinical symptoms. Animals also suffer from iodine deficiency in most countries.

Kelp is one easy, simple and cheap way to supplement them with iodine as well as many other nutrients. It's my go-to for improving intelligence in animals, as well as general health; I consider it indispensable. I use it on dogs, cats, poultry of all sorts, ruminants, etc.

Hope this helps. Best wishes.

 

[Sfraker]

@chooks4life Great info!

The place I got them from was not very impressive. The gentleman knew his stuff on the phone but when I got there it was cramped old cages for the babies and not impressive. The adults had some space but it was all dirt. He was in the process of grinding his own food so I don't know what he was feeding them. I have them on flock raiser for now until I find a better alternative. I get my duck feed from a local mill that is organic and soy free. Plus they get lots of garden scraps. Could the guineas eat a duck or chicken feed as a base and then I supplement as needed? That way I could buy them organic freshly milled food.

Again, I'm not trying to insult my guineas. Prior to this spring I had never had any birds, just dogs, horses, mice, rats, rabbits and guinea pigs. I have been surprised at the difference in learning speed between the guineas and the ducks. You made a great point. The ducks were bought from a reputable breeder at one day old. The guineas were bought from a not so great place at 6 weeks old and had lived in cramped quarters.

Hopefully with having more room and better feed they will be happy and healthy for a long time. I can't wait to bring them into my garden with me so that they can eat all the darn Japanese beetles, squash bugs/beetles and other creepy crawlers next spring. It will be so much fun watching them snack and being guineas while I work.

I love watching them, they make me laugh every morning when we let the ducks out of the coop into the pen. The ducks waddle to the morning snacks and the teensy little guineas just sprint right into the middle of them to pick out the best choices. No fear of the ducks at all and if a duck gets too pushy they just gang up and chase them back a few steps.

 

[chooks4life]

@chooks4life Great info!

The place I got them from was not very impressive. The gentleman knew his stuff on the phone but when I got there it was cramped old cages for the babies and not impressive. The adults had some space but it was all dirt. He was in the process of grinding his own food so I don't know what he was feeding them. I have them on flock raiser for now until I find a better alternative. I get my duck feed from a local mill that is organic and soy free. Plus they get lots of garden scraps. Could the guineas eat a duck or chicken feed as a base and then I supplement as needed? That way I could buy them organic freshly milled food.

The chicken feed would be a decent base feed for them, generally, not many places sell guinea-only feed, most folks keep them on something like chook food, gamebird food, or just forage.

The old gent you got them from is a good example of some breeders who know the technical stuff but have not much info on the social stuff, or instinctive stuff, and how restraining and overprotecting them from the world dulls instinct and intelligence (not to mention health). Some of the most instinct-lacking birds I've ever gotten came from backyard breeders who kept them in runs on plain dirt. When the environment is excessively boring, they tend to develop neurotic or obsessive, often harmful behaviors against themselves or others. They need stimulation, if their only stimulation is to savage other animals then that's what some resort to.

Again, I'm not trying to insult my guineas. Prior to this spring I had never had any birds, just dogs, horses, mice, rats, rabbits and guinea pigs. I have been surprised at the difference in learning speed between the guineas and the ducks. You made a great point. The ducks were bought from a reputable breeder at one day old. The guineas were bought from a not so great place at 6 weeks old and had lived in cramped quarters.

It's amazing, the differences you get in animals based on background, isn't it?

Since you have other animals, I guess you'd probably know what I mean in more detail than I'd need to explain, when I refer to the differences in cage-bred versus free-range bred birds, as being like the differences between a puppy-mill pup and a pet/worker-bred pup, or a horse that's been left basically wild versus one well trained, a rabbit never handled and one that's been socialized... That's basically what you're seeing in your guineas, the lack of life experience and opportunity to develop intelligence and reinforce instinct or learned behaviors.

Hopefully with having more room and better feed they will be happy and healthy for a long time. I can't wait to bring them into my garden with me so that they can eat all the darn Japanese beetles, squash bugs/beetles and other creepy crawlers next spring. It will be so much fun watching them snack and being guineas while I work.

Since they were cage-raised, I'd carefully and slowly introduce them to very short grass so they can learn to carefully pick their own, to avoid crop or gizzard binding episodes. Also, I'd slowly introduce them to insects, as many bugs are toxic and they can rapidly eat a whole cropful of them before they find that out. But asides from that I think you'll have a good time with them and they'll thrive in their new life.

I love watching them, they make me laugh every morning when we let the ducks out of the coop into the pen. The ducks waddle to the morning snacks and the teensy little guineas just sprint right into the middle of them to pick out the best choices. No fear of the ducks at all and if a duck gets too pushy they just gang up and chase them back a few steps.

This reminds me of something... My first lot of guineas came from an intensive hatchery style setup and even while the chicks were quite young, I had to get rid of them due to extreme aggression. When they were the size of budgies they were trying to kill and eat the budgies. When they were the same size as the baby turkeys, they were grabbing them by the wings and expertly flipping them on their backs to dive in for their guts. Rapidly they became so aggressive I had to rehome them. They were indeed fearless and everything else on the farm feared them, including animals many dozens of times their weight/size/height. I would watch their aggression if I were you, because it may become an issue.

Hope not though, best wishes with them.

 

[Sfraker]

@chooks4life
You are right on the puppy mill/backyard breeder/reputable breeder when it comes to dogs. I taught obedience for many years. It got to the point that I could pick out the puppy mill puppies before the first class even started. Socially they were a mess.

I think this gentleman had good intentions in the beginning but over the decades he has been raising and selling guineas and chickens it overwhelmed him. He was elderly and not moving around so well when I was there. His property is for sale so hopefully he will retire from breeding.

 

[chooks4life]

@chooks4life
You are right on the puppy mill/backyard breeder/reputable breeder when it comes to dogs. I taught obedience for many years. It got to the point that I could pick out the puppy mill puppies before the first class even started. Socially they were a mess.

Agree, and I reckon you'll see the same in birds, once you're familiar with poultry you will see them express in their own way that they are not mentally in the best place.

I think this gentleman had good intentions in the beginning but over the decades he has been raising and selling guineas and chickens it overwhelmed him. He was elderly and not moving around so well when I was there. His property is for sale so hopefully he will retire from breeding.

Yeah, it happens like that sometimes, especially with age and lack of support.

But there's lots of people who keep animals like that thinking it's ideal, plenty on this forum too, at the end of the day it's each to their own I guess. I prefer free range and socialized birds, personally.

Best wishes.