Barring Genes through Different Breeds

[Horsehead520]

Hi all,

I've got Cream Legbars (which are barred and therefore autosexing). I also have an assortment of non-CL hens currently, and I sell EE chicks in addition to pure CL chicks. I've tried looking into the barring gene for different breeds, and there's so much conflicting info out there. Does anyone feel confident in their knowledge, or, even better, have first hand experience with crossing CL roos with hens from barred breeds (Barred Rock, Dominiques, Bielefelder, Cuckoo Marans, etc)? I'd love to have some crosses that are also auto-sexing, but can't really find any confirmation of whether the presence of barring is sufficient, or if the barring gene varies between breeds of barred chickens.

If anyone has any other breeds that would result in auto-sexing chicks when covered by a Cream Legbar roo, please feel free to point them out. I'm not attached to the breeds I listed, those are just the breeds that came to mind. I'm raising roos for meat at this point, since I have quite a few just from the CL chicks. Would love if I could get some heavier breeds involved to help the meat production and the auto-sexing to sell EE chicks as day-olds.

Thanks!

 

[NatJ]

I've tried looking into the barring gene for different breeds, and there's so much conflicting info out there. Does anyone feel confident in their knowledge, or, even better, have first hand experience with crossing CL roos with hens from barred breeds (Barred Rock, Dominiques, Bielefelder, Cuckoo Marans, etc)? I'd love to have some crosses that are also auto-sexing, but can't really find any confirmation of whether the presence of barring is sufficient, or if the barring gene varies between breeds of barred chickens.

No first-hand experience, but from what I have read, the barring gene should behave the same in any breed.

Barring obviously looks a little different depending on what color the rest of the chicken is (Legbar vs. Barred Rock vs. Delaware) But the same basic idea should work for all the crosses: males grow up lighter-colored than females, which may also be visible in the down when they hatch. If only some of the chicks have light headspots from a given cross, they are probably the males.

I'm raising roos for meat at this point, since I have quite a few just from the CL chicks. Would love if I could get some heavier breeds involved to help the meat production and the auto-sexing to sell EE chicks as day-olds.

Dual purpose breeds would probably help there (including all the ones you listed.)

If you buy chicks to raise new hens, you could try weighing them all at a particular age (maybe 8 weeks) to compare them. The pullets that grow fastest are the ones most likely to produce sons who grow fast.

 

[Horsehead520]

No first-hand experience, but from what I have read, the barring gene should behave the same in any breed.

Barring obviously looks a little different depending on what color the rest of the chicken is (Legbar vs. Barred Rock vs. Delaware) But the same basic idea should work for all the crosses: males grow up lighter-colored than females, which may also be visible in the down when they hatch. If only some of the chicks have light headspots from a given cross, they are probably the males.

That was what I was thinking as well, just didn't want to be replacing most of my current flock if I was thinking about it incorrectly lol. But I might try finding some barred rocks at a feed store and seeing how those turn out (I haven't seen many of the other breeds being sold locally, and shipping is expensive for and experiment!

Dual purpose breeds would probably help there (including all the ones you listed.)

If you buy chicks to raise new hens, you could try weighing them all at a particular age (maybe 8 weeks) to compare them. The pullets that grow fastest are the ones most likely to produce sons who grow fast.

This was also one of my goals with it, to try and get a little more size in the crosses. The legbar roosters get to be a decent size, but they're definitely a little lighter than most dual purpose breeds seem to be

 

[NatJ]

That was what I was thinking as well, just didn't want to be replacing most of my current flock if I was thinking about it incorrectly lol. But I might try finding some barred rocks at a feed store and seeing how those turn out (I haven't seen many of the other breeds being sold locally, and shipping is expensive for and experiment!

Yes, it definitely tends to be cheaper to experiment with what is avaliable locally

This was also one of my goals with it, to try and get a little more size in the crosses. The legbar roosters get to be a decent size, but they're definitely a little lighter than most dual purpose breeds seem to be

Some meat birds grow fast (many of the dual purpose breeds were originally bred to do this). Some other meat birds grow slowly but eventually reach a much larger adult size (Brahmas and Jersey Giants are examples of this type.)

Some chickens grow fast at first but never do get very big (Leghorns do this, and so do some bantams.) Small chickens have their advantages if you grill them: less risk of burning the outside while trying to get the middle done. Or they can be nice little single-serve birds, rather like a Cornish Game Hen but a bit more slender.

What is "best" will partly depend on what age you want to butcher them. Of course you care how big they are on butchering day, but you might not care how much bigger they could get if you kept feeding & housing them for several more months.

 

[Horsehead520]

Yes, it definitely tends to be cheaper to experiment with what is avaliable locally

Some meat birds grow fast (many of the dual purpose breeds were originally bred to do this). Some other meat birds grow slowly but eventually reach a much larger adult size (Brahmas and Jersey Giants are examples of this type.)

Some chickens grow fast at first but never do get very big (Leghorns do this, and so do some bantams.) Small chickens have their advantages if you grill them: less risk of burning the outside while trying to get the middle done. Or they can be nice little single-serve birds, rather like a Cornish Game Hen but a bit more slender.
What is "best" will partly depend on what age you want to butcher them. Of course you care how big they are on butchering day, but you might not care how much bigger they could get if you kept feeding & housing them for several more months.

Yeah, I think I'll have a decent market for selling live roosters to local community (currently am doing rooster pick up occasionally for three people, when they ask). But they are looking more for a larger sized, not very old bird. They seem to prefer 6 to 7 months, and hate the CC specifically. They prefer rooster meat. Not sure the Jersey Giants would be worth the length of time needed and the feed for the parent stock, but I'm thinking Brahmas might be worth getting a few hens, just to incubate myself and sell started pullets and have decent sized roos to sell later. I need to pick a direction, basically I have too many ideas and not enough separate coops (and I'm not sure I want to have a bunch of little separate coops, either.........)

Thanks for all your input!

 

[NatJ]

I need to pick a direction, basically I have too many ideas and not enough separate coops (and I'm not sure I want to have a bunch of little separate coops, either.........)

You could deliberately pick some hens that will give distinctive chicks, so you can tell which are which.

For example, Brahmas will produce chicks with pea combs and feathered feet.

With your rooster, Bielefelders will produce chicks about the same color as Cream Legbars but they will probably grow bigger.

Barred Rocks should produce chicks that are black with white barring.

That would probably give you three different growth rates, with chicks that are easy to recognize by looking at them.

The Brahmas will not make auto-sexing chicks, but if your Cream Legbar rooster has the gold gene (he probably does) and you use a Light Brahma hen (Silver gene), their chicks will be gold/silver sexlinks (gold daughters, silver sons.) Both sexes will have white barring from their Legbar father.

 

[Horsehead520]

You could deliberately pick some hens that will give distinctive chicks, so you can tell which are which.

I've got a cabinet incubator with six trays, so even if the eggs are distinctive (or if the eggs are, the babies would have to be), that would be enough for me to narrow it down. Part of this is that I've got about 15 hens at the moment that are none of these breeds, so I would essentially be starting my entire flock over. Which I can do, but have to commit to it if I'm going to do it

For example, Brahmas will produce chicks with pea combs and feathered feet.

With your rooster, Bielefelders will produce chicks about the same color as Cream Legbars but they will probably grow bigger.

Barred Rocks should produce chicks that are black with white barring.

That would probably give you three different growth rates, with chicks that are easy to recognize by looking at them.

The Brahmas will not make auto-sexing chicks, but if your Cream Legbar rooster has the gold gene (he probably does) and you use a Light Brahma hen (Silver gene), their chicks will be gold/silver sexlinks (gold daughters, silver sons.) Both sexes will have white barring from their Legbar father.

I didn't even think about trying to create other forms of sexlinks... That's an excellent idea. I wonder, though, if the Creams would be heterozygous for the gold gene, rather than homozygous... Because I think if they had two copies, they would be Golden Crele Legbars instead. So I'll have to dig into that a little more

 

[NatJ]

I didn't even think about trying to create other forms of sexlinks... That's an excellent idea. I wonder, though, if the Creams would be heterozygous for the gold gene, rather than homozygous... Because I think if they had two copies, they would be Golden Crele Legbars instead. So I'll have to dig into that a little more

At least in theory, Cream Legbars should be homozygous for gold, but have a gene that dilutes the gold to cream.

In practice, I've read that some "Cream Lebars" actually have the silver gene.

So it would come down to what your specific rooster has. You might be able to do some test-hatches with some of your current hens to learn the answer to that.

I've got a cabinet incubator with six trays, so even if the eggs are distinctive (or if the eggs are, the babies would have to be), that would be enough for me to narrow it down. Part of this is that I've got about 15 hens at the moment that are none of these breeds, so I would essentially be starting my entire flock over. Which I can do, but have to commit to it if I'm going to do it

What breeds do you have now?

 

[Horsehead520]

At least in theory, Cream Legbars should be homozygous for gold, but have a gene that dilutes the gold to cream.

In practice, I've read that some "Cream Lebars" actually have the silver gene.

So it would come down to what your specific rooster has. You might be able to do some test-hatches with some of your current hens to learn the answer to that.


What breeds do you have now?

I've sort of just got an assortment, from sales at feed stores and stuff. Several Australorps and Black Sex Links, a couple Buff Orpingtons, Golden Comets, Gold Laced Wyandottes. I've also got about 100 RIR crosses that are four weeks old, because I was incubating them for someone who never picked them up. Planning to sell most of those, but would've made for some free laying hens if I keep them

 

[NatJ]

I've sort of just got an assortment, from sales at feed stores and stuff. Several Australorps and Black Sex Links, a couple Buff Orpingtons, Golden Comets, Gold Laced Wyandottes. I've also got about 100 RIR crosses that are four weeks old, because I was incubating them for someone who never picked them up. Planning to sell most of those, but would've made for some free laying hens if I keep them

None of those will make sexlinks with your Cream Legbar rooster.

But if you don't want to buy more chicks, you can use some of your current hens to produce daughters that will have auto-sexing chicks the next year.

Hatch eggs from your current black hens. All the chicks will have white barring. As they grow, pick daughters that are black with white barring (some chicks may be other colors than black, but the blacks should work best for this.)

Then next year, breed your Cream Legbar rooster to those daughters of his. About half of the chicks will be black-based (sexing works the same as Barred Rock or Cuckoo Marans), and the other half will be colored like Cream Legbars or Bielefelders (including the autosexing traits).

That won't do very much for making larger chickens, but could set you up with an autosexing flock that you didn't have to buy.