Birchen x black

[Nicks_Chicks]

What happens if I breed a birchen roo with a black hen? And what happens when I breed the daughters back to the birchen dad? Thanks!

 

[Nicks_Chicks]

What happens if I breed a birchen roo with a black hen? And what happens when I breed the daughters back to the birchen dad? Thanks!

@NatJ

 

[Amer]

Black (and a common melanizer, Melanotic) are dominant to birchen so the offspring will most likely be black (maybe with leakage, probably not). If the daughters are bred back to their father some of the offspring will be birchen.

 

[NatJ]

@NatJ

I see that someone else answered before I got here. I don't have anything to add to that answer.

 

[Bean1028]

What happens if I breed a birchen roo with a black hen? And what happens when I breed the daughters back to the birchen dad? Thanks!

I believe it will make a difference in your results if you use a hen without the self-e. For example, if you obtain a black that was hatched from a blue with self lacing, the blue is not self-e and neither is the black unless one of the parents has the self-e, in which half chicks would have self-e, half would not. If the black hen carries the self-e, most of the chicks would be black. But if you use a black hen that is just Black unicolor/self (no e) then you will have more colored chicks. I have a silver birchen hen, I was going to put her with a spare blue roo, but she chose a black roo. This black roo has fathered 18 chicks this year. 12/17 of the first hatch have lacing. I was told that was impossible, but he was the only roo with a pea comb, muffs/beards that all the chicks recieved. Those didn't come from my Cinnamon Queen hen that we hatched the eggs from! Of the other 5 chicks from the first hatch, 4 were paints, 1 was a black sexlink. The only all black chick (not bsl) we hatched from him came from a black hen. So, there's my theory. Hope this helps!

 

[Amer]

I believe it will make a difference in your results if you use a hen without the self-e. For example, if you obtain a black that was hatched from a blue with self lacing, the blue is not self-e and neither is the black unless one of the parents has the self-e, in which half chicks would have self-e, half would not. If the black hen carries the self-e, most of the chicks would be black. But if you use a black hen that is just Black unicolor/self (no e) then you will have more colored chicks. I have a silver birchen hen, I was going to put her with a spare blue roo, but she chose a black roo. This black roo has fathered 18 chicks this year. 12/17 of the first hatch have lacing. I was told that was impossible, but he was the only roo with a pea comb, muffs/beards that all the chicks recieved. Those didn't come from my Cinnamon Queen hen that we hatched the eggs from! Of the other 5 chicks from the first hatch, 4 were paints, 1 was a black sexlink. The only all black chick (not bsl) we hatched from him came from a black hen. So, there's my theory. Hope this helps!

Whatever do you mean by self-e?
Do you mean extended black? (E)
Solid/self black isn't always extended black based, sometimes it's birchen (E^R) (or more rarely partridge (e^b)) based + melanizers, so there's a possibility the chicks might hatch with leakage, but I have never heard anyone use the term "self-e."
Also there is the possibility the black is extended black but with recessive melanizers instead of melanotic which would allow leakage as well when crossed with birchen.

 

[Bean1028]

Whatever do you mean by self-e?
Do you mean extended black? (E)
Solid/self black isn't always extended black based, sometimes it's birchen (E^R) (or more rarely partridge (e^b)) based + melanizers, so there's a possibility the chicks might hatch with leakage, but I have never heard anyone use the term "self-e."
Also there is the possibility the black is extended black but with recessive melanizers instead of melanotic which would allow leakage as well when crossed with birchen.

Well, I believe you definitely understand more about this than I do! Here's pics, they both show extended E, but the description & offspring are different. The difference between the 2 is in the MI gene...I'd love to understand this better, so any advice is welcome

ETA: Correct photo

 

[Amer]

Well, I believe you definitely understand more about this than I do! Here's pics, they both show extended E, but the description & offspring are different. The difference between the 2 is in the MI gene...I'd love to understand this better, so any advice is welcome

ETA: Correct photo

The •E simply indicates a footnote, it's not actually a genetics term.

Black needs melanizers to be purely black without any groundcolor so that's what the note is about.

 

[Bean1028]

Isn't the MI gene the Melanizers?
Here's more pics, hopefully in order that will show you what I'm talking about...or maybe it's irrelevant, but I didn't think so or I wouldn't have posted, but I am also trying to learn here, so when I post it's supposed to come off as a hypothetical "what if"...but I realize it doesn't always come across that way.

 

[Amer]

Isn't the MI gene the Melanizers?
Here's more pics, hopefully in order that will show you what I'm talking about...or maybe it's irrelevant, but I didn't think so or I wouldn't have posted, but I am also trying to learn here, so when I post it's supposed to come off as a hypothetical "what if"...but I realize it doesn't always come across that way.

Ml is a melanizer but it's not the only one. There are other melanizers that have been isolated from black as well. But that's why the one without the •E is pure black. He has Ml.