black shoulder whites

[johnskoi]

i get it that when you cross a white with a bs india blue, you get all ib's carrying both traits.... but is there any way that a white pea can carry the bs gene??

 

[pedda munnangi]

A white looking bird carrys two white genes. It can also carry one or two blackshoulder gene with a planned breeding process - without any phenotypical blackshoulder appearance. Two white genes mask every other color. For that matter, a white looking bird can carry any color or pattern genes simultaneously

 

[johnskoi]

trying to get it, but it ain't quite clicking --- i get phenotypes, i get genotypes, i get punnet squares, i get sex-linked colors (finally --- was easy after i got the xy thing in birds is the opposite of mammals...) .. but the dominant white thing just doesn't click -- not saying it's wrong, i just need it said so i can understand it....

 

[pedda munnangi]

My friend try this ; A purple single or double factor white eye and split to white male x purple pied hen in a punnet square. You will get whites actually carrying purple genes. Male genetic code T, w/e, zs,zs x female T, Pd, zs, w The bird with TTzszs combo though looks white it is actually a purple male.You can finish the punnet square and find out what you will get.

 

[Arbor]

pedda - your info is correct, however, a white bird cannot carry the pied gene.

johnskoi - if you understand how the pied genetics work, it may be simpler to figure out how white can be dominant. I treat white as a pattern, because of the characteristic to mask any other colour and it being one half of the pied pattern. This is most useful when writing out your punnett squares. White works in similar fashion to White-eyed. It is partially dominant (co-dominant), meaning with only one white (or white-eyed) gene, the characteristic is partially exhibited visually.

A pied bird carries both one pied gene and one white gene (they occupy the same loci or location in the gene sequence - meaning you can't have one white, and two pied genes, vice versa, or two of both). Assuming you breed Indian blue pied to Indian blue pied you get birds of the following patterns - white, dark pied and pied. If you breed Bronze pied to Bronze pied, you still get the following patterns - white, dark pied and pied. All offspring from the Bronze pied pairing will be bronze, just as Indian blue to Indian blue produces Indian blue. Therefore, your Bronze pied pairing produces white offspring that are actually bronze. If you breed these white bronze birds to a regular bronze hen, all offspring will be bronze split to white.

I hope that helps. The main thing would be to treat white not as a colour, but as a pattern.

 

[johnskoi]

i really want to thank you both -- i think it's starting to fall into place

arbor, if i were breed a white pea (from blue splits) to a bronze pied would it be a 'back to blue' thing? --if it's yes, it's really starting to click...

 

[pedda munnangi]

White male (TT) x Bronze pied ( T,Pd, bz,bz ) = !) White actually split to bronze and 2) Indiablue pied split to bronze two different types of chicks. attached is the Punnet square.

 

[Arbor]

i really want to thank you both -- i think it's starting to fall into place

arbor, if i were breed a white pea (from blue splits) to a bronze pied would it be a 'back to blue' thing? --if it's yes, it's really starting to click...

Yes, a "back to blue thing"! As pedda pointed out. Your whites are actually Indian Blue Whites, split to bronze - meaning even if you breed this white bird to a bronze, only 50% of the offspring would be bronze, just as the pied offspring from your white x bronze pied are Indian blue pied, split to bronze. I think you're getting it