Bloody poo and tired hen...

[chickinlickin]

1) What type of bird , age and weight.
Barred rock pullet, hatched in April
2) What is the behavior, exactly.
I've found bloody poo under the roost in the morning and I have 1 hen that is a little "slower" than the rest..stays on the roost by herself....acting a little tired.
3) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
No
4) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
Nothing
5) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
Layena, garden scraps, bugs and grass while out in the run
6) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
A pile of brownish, semi-runny poo in a puddle of blood
7) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
4ml of Corid per gal of water since Monday evening and last evening gave them all some yogurt...
8 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
Not sure...but don't want all my birds to get sick.
9) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
I can get a pic of the poo in the morning, if that will help.
10) Describe the housing/bedding in use
8x8 coop and large run (16x24) housing 10 hens of the same age...using pine shavings for the deep litter.

I'm not 100% sure the sleepy one is the one pooing blood....she still is eating and drinking..but not foraging/scratching as much or as active as the others.... should I separate her?..or what else should I do?...I've only had chickens for about 2 months ....any help would be great...
Thanks -
Dean

 

[Judy]

I'd say the main reason to separate would be to be sure which one it is, and to evaluate what she is actually eating and drinking better. Sounds like you have made a sensible start.

Have you seen the poo chart? Any chance you are seeing cecal poos? Also, have they eaten anything that would turn the poo red, like berries, etc?

http://www.chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=17568.0

This might help, too:

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=poos&action=display&num=1158478320

 

[chickinlickin]

Quote:
I've checked the poo chart and I don't think it is cecal...but like I said not much experience here....

They've all eaten some overripe tomatoes and a few peaches...but that is about all I can think of besides regular garden type stuff...and I only find about 1 or 2 bloddy poos in the mornings...since Monday.

So it's not a big deal to separate her?....
I'll check that link out later today... THANKS.

 

[Judy]

Usually I believe isolation is to prevent spread of respiratory infections, although this could be an infectious process in this case as well, perhaps a GI infection. You'll know more than I do after you read dlhunicorn's link, for sure! (The website that page is on is an amazing collection of chicken information.) If your guess of cocci turns out correct, obviously you'll treat all of them, anyway, is what I was thinking, and it is not unlikely, since you have not had them all their lives.

 

[hinkjc]

If this is cocci, which is what it sounds like to me, it is best to treat the whole flock. Sounds like you're doing the right thing. If the Corid doesn't resolve the bloody stools, you may have a resistant strain and need to use something different, like Sulmet.

 

[chickinlickin]

Thanks for that link ddawn....lots of info.

All of the girls were eating yogurt again tonight...and the one I think may be sick stayed at the bowl the longest...but she is still a step behind the rest.

A couple other questions....

-On Monday I ended up buying a little bottle of Corid from my vet (nobody around here has it)...and she said she would treat them for 5 days..so she only gave me enough for 5 days. Is that long enough? She said that she is no chicken expert, but wouldn't treat them any longer than that.....

-How soon should I see an improvement? (as far as poop goes).

-None of my hens are laying yet, but if they do start soon, how long should I wait to use the eggs?

Thanks -

 

[Judy]

On the Corid and the improvement, you are out of my league now. Threehorses and Speckledhen would be your best resources, if you can't find it in dlhunicorn's site. You could PM one of them. Or do a search using one of them as author and see what you can find. Speckledhen has had to do a lot of treatment for cocci in recent months.

The rule of thumb for everything seems to be two weeks' wait on using eggs, though sometimes I see 10 days. Again, if there is a scientific study to back that up, I haven't seen it. I keep reading 2 weeks wait on eating eggs after ivermectin, for example, yet the label says hogs can be slaughtered in either 24 or 48 hours, I forget which. And ivermectin is used on people in third world countries!

On the other hand there is a lot of info on dlhunicorn's site I haven't even read, never mind stuffed into this brain.

 

[speckledhen]

Five days of Corid should do it for the flock, if it's cocci. Treatment is usually five to seven days, total. The only other thing that would cause bloody poop that I would suspect is a heavy worm load. If you do decide to worm, use fenbendazole unless you have lots of birds in heavy molt since it can cause feather deformities. Fenbendazole (also called Panacur and Safeguard) has anti-protozoan properties, which is what causes cocci and can help with that as well.

 

[threehorses]

I'm also wondering about egg laying. They're on layer, she's near the age.. but are her comb and wattles enlarging and reddening? Sometimes when a hen tries to lay a first egg, the cloaca skin splits and they will bleed. When they bleed, they will leave that sort of blood; a picture would be idea if you had one. I would want to rule that out.

In the mean time, I'm with ddawn and speckledhen on this one. Corid for 5 days, probiotics (yogurt or otherwise), and consider a worming as worms can irritate the ceca (the blind pouches near the end of the digestive tract) and cause them to bleed. You can use SafeGuard paste for horses/cattle, or liquid for goats (both are 10%) either directly in each bird's mouth, or mixed into a damp mash and fed to the flock.

For the paste, it's a bb sized piece directly in the beak. I would repeat in 6 weeks, then twice a year. I'll paste at the bottom some information I gathered about using the 10% liquid SafeGuard.

----------------------

(From a post by Nathalie Ross at BYC)

here's a helpful article with a bit on gapeworm and fenbendazole:
SOURCE: http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/disparas.htm

Their dosage recommendation is a paste mixed with water and then mixed into feed. We'll break down the dosage, but here's the text:

QUOTE:
----------------------
"PARASITE (INTERNAL) SOLUTIONS

The following treatments have been shown to be effective for eliminating internal parasites from poultry and game birds. Neither of these drugs (fenbendazole or leviamisole) has been approved for use by FDA, so the producer accepts all responsibility for their use. Both drugs have been very effective if used properly and will eliminate most types of internal parasites that affect birds. Caution: Do not use with birds producing eggs or meat destined for human consumption.

Fenbendazole Treatments

One-day Treatment

1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed

Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole.

Safeguard is a product of Ralston Purina, and Panacur is a product marketed by American Hoechst. One ounce of medication will treat about 1000 10-oz bobwhite quail. Adjustments of the amounts of medication and feed needed may be necessary depending on the number and size of the birds...."
----------------------------
QUOTE:
"Fenbendazole has been shown to be a very effective treatment for eliminating Capillaria (capillary worms), Heterakis (cecal worms), Ascaridia (roundworms), and Syngamus spp. (gapeworms). Toxicity from overdosing with fenbendazole is very remote. Research indicates that amounts up to 100 times the recommended dosages have been given under research conditions without adverse effects to the birds. Use of this product during molt, however, may cause deformity of the emerging feathers."
------------------------------
SOURCE:
http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html
------------------------------

OK, now - let's work this out as they have it dosed.

One ounce = 30cc'*s = recommended treatment for 20 lbs of feed.

divide that all by 10
1/10th ounce = 3 cc's = treatment for 2 pounds of feed.

*Actually it's 29.5735296 cc's but I rounded up.

So get a syringe and measure out 3 cc's of SafeGuard liquid for goats. It's 10%.(** see below.) Mix that in about 1/8th of a cup of water. Mix with the crumbles and let it set for about 10 minutes til it absorbs. Feed as their only source of feed for the day, and replace regular crumbles when all of that food is gone.

Make sure all babies get a good bit of it. Note that they're growing feathers, and so their feathers will likely be a little funky.

** Here's an example of a bottle:
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=0029013

 

[Judy]

Wow. How's that for response?!!!