bloody stool/egg yesterday, now she's listless, won't eat, egg-bound?

[maggiebanjo]

This hen is about 6.5 months old. She has only been laying for a couple of weeks and only about 4 "normal" eggs. All have been large and double-yolk. She hasn't laid for a couple days and yesterday under her perch there was a pile of blood and a strange thin-shelled egg. This morning there was a normal stool under her perch, no blood, but she is listless, panting, and won't eat (she is normally a really good eater). Her tail is tucked down, she is sitting/sleeping. Her comb is a little pale and flopped over a little.

I examined her and the crop feels normal. There are little crusts of feces on the feathers around her cloaca and the cloaca looks a little red and irritated. I brushed the feathers off. I looked for any sign of injury or cuts or abnormal skin--all looks good. I felt her abdomen, but am not sure exactly what to look for.

Our 4 hens have never been wormed and we thought we'd rule this out as a cause of the problem. We put 4ML of Piperazine-17 in their water this morning and she (and our other three hens) drank lots of that. I think the flavor encouraged her to drink too, so hopefully she won't be dehydrated.

She gets a layer feed and occasional treats of veggies and fruit scraps, and corn, though now I am considering not giving any treats at all since they don't need it.

From all that I have read on this forum it seems like she may be egg-bound. Any one else agree? If so, I am unclear on the best way to treat her...

I appreciate your thoughts!

best,
Maggie

 

[threehorses]

Hello Maggie, and welcome to BYC!

So we have a hen with some laying issues, yes? OK let's work on it.

Oh and this post - I was just telling someone about blood puddles, egg laying, etc. I might have to point them to your post as they're having issues with the blood but not any evidence (mentioned yet) of odd eggs.

First, she's having calcium deficiency issues. That's evidence by the egg. The softer the shell, the harder the egg is to pass. It's "grippy". That's one reason why calcium levels are so important. We'll get you fixed up in that respect.

In the mean time, we'll need to see if she's retained any eggs and/or has an infection or is just stressed.

Her cloaca is probably irritated for pushing to get the eggs through her cloaca; she might even have prolapsed, had some diarrhea, and returned to normal without you having been aware. I'd suspect that because of the puddles of blood.

On her abdomen, you will want to do this: put on a pair of rubber/latex gloves, and oil the index finger of your right hand. (Olive oil is fine, KY jelly is priceless for this). With someone holding her gently (by her sides, not her belly) with her vent to you - or with her on your lap with her rear to your right, insert your index finger gently into her vent - into the top section as if you're going to run your finger along the top wall of the cloaca. Use your left hand to gently feel under her abdomen. You're trying to very very delicately 'sandwich' an egg between your finger and hand, to feel for any soft shelled eggs, any evidence of broken eggs or shell-less eggs.

If you feel a normal sized egg, you can guide it out. If the egg is over-sized, it may be necessary to break it to make it smaller and then guide it out. If you do ALL STEPS MUST be taken in the process as listed below.

For normal eggs, simply just guide out of the vent (which should be lubricated by your finger as you were entering).

For overly large eggs that will not pass, you can puncture the shell (gently) on the end with an awl or something similar. Collapse the egg, trying to get the contents to come out towards you (not just crushing the egg). Pull the egg shell out in as much one-piece as you can. Then **** rinse the cloaca out thoroughly with COOL water, not warm, with a baby's ear syringe or a baster (which you will thereafter replace - this is a good thing to have around the house). Rinse very very thoroughly.; The reason for cool water, not warm, is to cool the tissues and reduce inflammation. If you have nolvasan, you can put a few drops of that into the solution that you use for a rinse. It is very important that all egg pieces and all interior egg white/yolk are rinsed out. Over-rinse if you must.

Retained eggs might require a hen to have penicillin injections thereafter to prevent/treat infection from the eggs/shells/scratches within.

On worming, you can rule this out though the eggs are telling me it's calcium/D3/phosphorus. Piperazine 17 should be repeated in 2-4 weeks, or better yet follow up with SafeGuard wormer (fenbendazole for cattle/horses). If you see worms in the next week, they're paralyzed and leaving the hen. So don't be alarmed.

On the feed, it's the corn diminishing the calcium if it's more than 10% of her total diet. Laying feed should be 90% of the diet, the rest (or more layer) 10% or less. The reason is that calcium absorbtion is a three-legged stool involving calcium, vitamin D, and phosphorus. If the birds eat a lot of grains, they get overmuch phosphorus which means the hen has to steal calcium from her egg laying process to have her body work right. Phosphorus is rarely deficient (as poultry eat mostly grains). It's more often over-sufficient.

Because of her issue with the egg, I would give 1 tums tablet crushed in a wet-treat. Crumbles, water, cooked oatmeal, watermelon mashed up, whatever you can do to get her to get at least 1/2 of the tumbs tablet.

I would also use cod liver oil sprayed on the feed (so that it's a light dose) twice a week for two weeks minimum. If she has a vitamin D deficiency (because of food storage, or because of too much phos) then this will help. All of the birds can have this. More is *not* better for this - just use a travel-sized hand held sprayer (like from the cosmetic store) and literally just spray til you can see the wetness on the feed. (One person recently gave their bird several cod liver oil capsules - a well-intended example of too much). If you can't get the liquid, and only the capsules, use 2 drops in the beak daily twice a week. Obviously the spray is easier for flocks - and what one hen is showing, many hens are probably hiding in their own systems as they're all on the same diet. She might be one of the hens that needs more than the average dose of calcium.

For those hens, I always provide crushed oyster shell free choice. I prefer crushed over pelleted because the really fine bits are a 'flour' and can be mixed in with feeds monthly to ensure that hens are getting enough calcium. Always provide oyster shell, not egg shells, for laying hens - that really reduces incidences of weird eggs and egg binding.

For her light bit of feces around the vent, and because the cloaca's end it part of the digestive tract, I would give her and the other girls yogurt daily for a week.

I highly suspect that she is egg bound, worried and stressed because of a 'sticky' egg - thus the recommendation for the exam. Likely she will lay an egg, pep up, and then repeat the whole thing tomorrow. So I'd definitely try to get that little one-time tums dose in her and see if it'll start working on the eggs that will be coming soon.

Let me know if you ever have any questions, if I can clarify the information above (or explain why hens on laying pellets still need oyster shell), etc. I'll be glad to help in any way that I can.