Building my run; what’s the best Sand Method?

[SuperC]

Hi all! I’m going to be a new chicken mama next week, and while they will be in the brooder for 2 months, I’m half way thru building a coop and will start the run in a few weeks. My plan is to put down sand for the run, but I don’t see a lot of info on “best practices” for this method.
My questions are: “how deep should the sand be to start?”, and “what is the BEST sand to use (what’s it called since I hear various types banded about) and where to get it (Home Depot?” I can’t have it delivered to the coop area and don’t have a truck to have a load put in my trunk). I also wonder if I should leave an area (directly under the coop) to maybe mix dirt and sand for a more “dusty” dust bath than just gravel/sand?

A bit about the coop/run location. I live in SE TN and we get a decent amount of rain all year (2-5+ inches every month) I will be putting the run on an area of partially shaded yard that used to be grass, but is now hard packed mud/dirt depending on the weather (we had an above ground pool there for 2 years so the weeds/grass haven’t come back yet). There is also some crushed granite bits and rocks pressed into the dirt as well from previous owners. I am planning on a fully secure run with 12-18 inches of hardware cloth as an apron running outwards and staked down and then covered with some pavers to prevent predators from digging under. I plan on using 4-6” planks at the bottom edge on the inside to hold my “run material” in place so it doesn’t wash away in the rain (& at times, very heavy rain). Since we live in TN, we get a decent amount of rain and I want the sand so that the rain drains off the run and doesn’t turn it all to a thick mud puddle like just dirt or wood chips alone would be.

I have heard that sand is also the easiest to keep raked/clean, but I’m curious to what y’all advise. I have access to wood chips, leaves, endless grass clippings (I’m on 4 acres I have to keep mowed) and am open to suggestions. The interior of the coop will be a deep litter method with hemp litter (since we use that inside with our Guinea pig and love it). I would also love to hear your opinions on the hardware cloth protection method. I plan on running it along the ground outside the coop (it will be attached to the outside walls of the run) and will stake it down with 12 inch Ustakes and put pavers on top. But I’ve had some people tell me I should dig a trench and bury it vertically, not run it horizontally. Personally, I feel a 12-18 inch wide skirt should be fine/safe, but I don’t know for sure. Your thoughts? We have mostly air based predators (hawks, eagles) and the land based ones are mainly racoon, opossum, skunk and occasiaonal coyotes- but I feel a 18inch wide barrier would deter digging, but maybe I’m wrong?

Any and all advice appreciated and I’m going to post photos /build videos of it here when I’m all done!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t see a lot of info on “best practices” for this method.

Some people love sand, some people hate it. That is based in their experiences with it. good or bad. Sand is porous and will allow water to drain away if the water has somewhere to go. Clay is non-porous and will hold water. If you dig a hole in clay and fill it with sand, the water cannot drain away so it will stay wet. I don't know what your area looks like so I have no idea how your area will drain if you put sand in it. If your native soil is mostly sand it may drain well.

Another issue is that chickens poop. Wherever they are they are going to poop. If you have a large area it may be spread out enough that it is not a problem, but if you have limited space it may build up enough to cause issues. You may need to remove poop regularly to keep it from building up enough to be an issue.

what is the BEST sand to use

My preference is a coarse sand like construction sand. I don't care for really fine sand like "play sand". That's probably more personal preference than anything else.

I am planning on a fully secure run with 12-18 inches of hardware cloth as an apron running outwards and staked down and then covered with some pavers to prevent predators from digging under.

I personally bury my apron under about 2" of dirt so it is out of the way of lawn mowers and weed eaters.. It is horizontal about 18" wide. A critter comes along, goes up to the fence, starts digging, hits the wire, and cannot get through. I've had a few try, probably coyote or raccoon, but none have succeeded yet.

I have heard that sand is also the easiest to keep raked/clean, but I’m curious to what y’all advise. I have access to wood chips, leaves, endless grass clippings (I’m on 4 acres I have to keep mowed) and am open to suggestions.

People do all kinds of things and, of course, whatever they do is "best" as far as they are concerned. If you have pure sand you probably need to regularly scoop the poop to keep it from building up. Some people turn their run into a compost pile (deep litter method here too). If water stands you are probably going to have problems unless you work hard. If you can keep it fairly dry many methods work well.

 

[SuperC]

Some people love sand, some people hate it. That is based in their experiences with it. good or bad. Sand is porous and will allow water to drain away if the water has somewhere to go. Clay is non-porous and will hold water. If you dig a hole in clay and fill it with sand, the water cannot drain away so it will stay wet. I don't know what your area looks like so I have no idea how your area will drain if you put sand in it. If your native soil is mostly sand it may drain well.

Another issue is that chickens poop. Wherever they are they are going to poop. If you have a large area it may be spread out enough that it is not a problem, but if you have limited space it may build up enough to cause issues. You may need to remove poop regularly to keep it from building up enough to be an issue.


My preference is a coarse sand like construction sand. I don't care for really fine sand like "play sand". That's probably more personal preference than anything else.


I personally bury my apron under about 2" of dirt so it is out of the way of lawn mowers and weed eaters.. It is horizontal about 18" wide. A critter comes along, goes up to the fence, starts digging, hits the wire, and cannot get through. I've had a few try, probably coyote or raccoon, but none have succeeded yet.


People do all kinds of things and, of course, whatever they do is "best" as far as they are concerned. If you have pure sand you probably need to regularly scoop the poop to keep it from building up. Some people turn their run into a compost pile (deep litter method here too). If water stands you are probably going to have problems unless you work hard. If you can keep it fairly dry many methods work well.

Thank you! You have given a lot to contemplate. I’m not sure of the exact soil type since I use raised beds. But it isn’t pure clay but it stays soft and wet and firm mud when wet. I’ll have to keep planning. But I appreciate your tips- Thank you!

 

[paintedChix]

I see this is an older thread, but you are active. What did you go with and how is it going?

I am in the "sand is disgusting, why would anyone use it" camp. Our property is all sand in the top portions. Water generally drains away - one way or the other. It was part of a monocropped farm and when we moved i, everytime it rained it smelled bad enough to make people in our family sick. So we/I went w/ "natural" products for our various pens & coops/runs that were either here or I built.

Over the last 10 years I've learned a lot! What it boils down to is if you can only use one product, rough cut woodchips are best. They are many different sizes, allowing aeration & water flow through.

If using long stemmed products such as hay, straw or pine straw - they work best if they are chopped first. They do break down, but have a tendency to mat first if used in layers that the birds don't mix well (I do not stir it). If they mat & are on top, can become stinkey mess that takes foever to break down. I found that i could either break open flakes 1st, then birds would mix in. Or i would drop flakes on top of areas i was mowing - did 2 things. Chopped the long stems to different lengths & mixed it w/ the lawn clippings, which was wonderful. Pine straw, does break down. However, when I dug up part of a coop floor that had a bunch put in after Hurricane Florence, I found lots of whole strands. Those sections of compost weren't as light & fluffy, but they did break apart & spread nicely in raised garden beds. I'm certain that A - it will allow more drainage in the garden bed & B - they will continue to break down.

Leaves were a surprise! Even dried leaves, when/if they got wet & were on top, w/ little mixing or other sized materials, became "slick as ice". I skied a couple of times & pretty quickly changed that up! I'm currently healing from a broken & dislocated ankle (slid & fell on grandsons' kinetic sand in. the. house.). Healing the muscles, tendons & ligaments from the dislocation has been much more trying & sometimes excruciatingly painful than the break itself. The thought of "skiing" on leaves is more than a little terrifying right now, LOL.

I love using shredded paper!! When in a hurry, I even use lots of un-shredded napkins, tissue & paper towels (not in areas easily seen by others as it does look trashy for a bit until birds mix it into other DLM products). Again, in an situation where birds don't mix it w/ other materials, when gotten wet, shredded paper dries in a mat that can block drainage or sheds water (used it around several plants as mulch by itself - it even killed the comfrey! How does that happen?).

So... what did you end up doing & how do you like it?

 

[SuperC]

I see this is an older thread, but you are active. What did you go with and how is it going?

I am in the "sand is disgusting, why would anyone use it" camp. Our property is all sand in the top portions. Water generally drains away - one way or the other. It was part of a monocropped farm and when we moved i, everytime it rained it smelled bad enough to make people in our family sick. So we/I went w/ "natural" products for our various pens & coops/runs that were either here or I built.

Over the last 10 years I've learned a lot! What it boils down to is if you can only use one product, rough cut woodchips are best. They are many different sizes, allowing aeration & water flow through.

If using long stemmed products such as hay, straw or pine straw - they work best if they are chopped first. They do break down, but have a tendency to mat first if used in layers that the birds don't mix well (I do not stir it). If they mat & are on top, can become stinkey mess that takes foever to break down. I found that i could either break open flakes 1st, then birds would mix in. Or i would drop flakes on top of areas i was mowing - did 2 things. Chopped the long stems to different lengths & mixed it w/ the lawn clippings, which was wonderful. Pine straw, does break down. However, when I dug up part of a coop floor that had a bunch put in after Hurricane Florence, I found lots of whole strands. Those sections of compost weren't as light & fluffy, but they did break apart & spread nicely in raised garden beds. I'm certain that A - it will allow more drainage in the garden bed & B - they will continue to break down.

Leaves were a surprise! Even dried leaves, when/if they got wet & were on top, w/ little mixing or other sized materials, became "slick as ice". I skied a couple of times & pretty quickly changed that up! I'm currently healing from a broken & dislocated ankle (slid & fell on grandsons' kinetic sand in. the. house.). Healing the muscles, tendons & ligaments from the dislocation has been much more trying & sometimes excruciatingly painful than the break itself. The thought of "skiing" on leaves is more than a little terrifying right now, LOL.

I love using shredded paper!! When in a hurry, I even use lots of un-shredded napkins, tissue & paper towels (not in areas easily seen by others as it does look trashy for a bit until birds mix it into other DLM products). Again, in an situation where birds don't mix it w/ other materials, when gotten wet, shredded paper dries in a mat that can block drainage or sheds water (used it around several plants as mulch by itself - it even killed the comfrey! How does that happen?).

So... what did you end up doing & how do you like it?

I actually went with bags of hardwood chips from Home Depot ($3 a bag?). I started with 2 bags in a 100sf run space. After 2 months it had started to break down a bit and I added 3 more. I have been SO happy with my choice!

The woodchips are not shredded, but chunks and sticks, but they do break down a bit and so I’m getting a nice under-layer of soft dirt/woodchip/compost material.

Every day I rake around the run and stir up any droppings and mix it all together. They have been out there for 3 months and there is no smell, no mold, no issues. I’ve hand picked out some of the large feathers they have dropped, but I’ve not needed to “clean out” the wood chips at all. The “under the coop” 4x4 space I added a bag of organic garden soil to mix with the woodchips and it gives them a nice dirt bath space.

We get a lot of rain here in the south, and so I have some issues with water run off, and sometimes a heavy storm (an inch in 45 minutes sort of rain) will cause a river to run around in there and it will “displace” the woodchips, but unjust take it and rake it around and it’s back to normal. It also works nicely with hot days, because I will go out there and water the entire run down with the hose and it gives them cooler, wet wood chips to walk on instead of the hot dry ground (they also have a cement pacer in a tub of water to stand on, but only a few like to use it).

I don’t think I’ll ever look for a different option at this point- my ladies have loved the woodchip, the “always looks clean and smells nice” is a good thing, and they love to scratch around in the woodchips for snacks. I also give them enrichment by gathering up a bowl of grass,yard greens and veggies, and raking/building a pile in the center of the coop and layering greens and scratch mix in to it, and they spend an hour or 2 a day, happily digging in the woodchip pile and spreading it all back around again.

I have a happy little flock and so far the hardwood chips have worked out perfectly! Here is a picture of the coop before I put the sun/rain shade roof on, and before I finished the “landscaping”around it. (I now have the whole area infront of it covered with woodchips and potted plants and chairs and such).